What worries me about having my Bust Halves sent to CAC

[MikeKing]

OK, I had a fantasy of sending my whole Bust Half collection in for CAC review. But then I thought, if they don't ALL get a CAC sticker, and I try to sell my collection, the non-CAC stickered coins will be looked at as 'less than'. With this in mind, I think it may not be a good idea for me to do this.

 

What do you think? All prejudice aside from this controversial stickering stuff.

 

I'll put a poll, but I'd really like verbal input and what your ideas are.

 

 

[coinman1794]

No one knows which coins were reviewed by CAC, and which ones weren't.

[James_OldeTowne]

if they don't ALL get a CAC sticker, and I try to sell my collection, the non-CAC stickered coins will be looked at as 'less than'.

I brought up this issue some time ago. It is an issue only if the "CAC" comes to be looked at with some degree of respect - a considerable degree, that is. I do not think that point has been reached, however. Therefore, I think the stickers themselves will have little impact on the value of the coins, but will definitely have an impact (negative) on your pocketbook.

[physics-fan3.14]

I agree with James. I'm not sure that the CAC sticker is recognized enough at all to harm your non-stickered coins. It may modestly help your stickered coins, but the only way I could see it hurting your non-stickered ones is if, like Mark Feld, you fully disclose those coins which were sent to CAC and rejected. Overall, though, you have to weigh the (not insignificant) cost of getting your whole collection stickered, and decide whether that large financial outlay will bring a sufficient return when it comes time to sell.

[Just Bob]

I have a few questions, the answers to which might affect my answer to your question:

 

1) What is the likely venue?

 

2) Will they be sold as a set, individually all at once, or individually, but spread out over time?

 

3) If sold at auction, will you set a reserve price?

 

4) As has been mentioned by others, will you disclose any coins which did not receive a sticker?

[TJ'S Coins]

Mike, is the idea of sending the set to CAC for your benefit? That is, will it confirm your excellent eye and good job in selecting coins or is if for the buyer that he/she may know the coins are a good deal for the money, even worthy of a premium price?

 

Looking for CAC endorsement involves a large outlay of money. Do your coins need such a sticker?

 

Quality sells itself. An excellent coin should not need multiple endorsements to declare what it is.

[MikeInFL]

If you are that concerned, Mike, why not sell them in two parts -- one being the CAC coins, and the other the ones that didn't get the sticker.

[jtryka]

Assuming that the CAC sticker turns out to be worthwhile, then not having it on some coins may matter little, unless you sell the collection right after submission. If you do it now, who's to say that the non-stickered coins weren't purchased later? After all, CAC doesn't have a raspberry sticker for coins it doesn't like yet, so know one would know. Personally Mike, from what I know of your coins and the way you collect, the CAC sticker would mean far less to me than knowing the coin came from your collection.

[nwcs]

I think you're right. If they aren't all stickered then people will (in general) rank the non-stickered ones lower. I've heard for years that the slab doesn't matter, it's what the coin is that counts. Yet every dealer I've interacted with on sales doesn't seem to agree when it comes to selling *to* them. And many collectors do not agree with their wallet.

[WoodenJefferson]

I have given this much thought and over a period of time have come to a conclusion that we as niche collectors in the domain of coins have been or are in the process of being swayed, by some pretty savvy business leaders.

 

I’m not saying that everyone who has witnessed an overall change in our hobby has jumped onto the band wagon, but I see more and more collectors, dealers accepting our own fate of not having the ability to distinguish a good coin from just a normal ho-hum type of coin.

 

We have entered a psychological arena with conative impulses to somehow fit in, to be a part of fad or to simply not be out witted. There is nothing wrong with standing on your own morals about how you fit into the overall spectrum of this hobby…there are those who have stood alone and did quite well.

 

I ask you, just where in the heck did all these beautiful coins in slabs come from? At one time they were once RAW, that’s where they came from.

 

Those coins of yesteryear came from collectors who knew what the finest examples were supposed to look like. Those very numismatics collecting those very raw coins did not need a sticker to decide the fate of a coin. When they looked upon it, they felt it, they knew it and they wanted to own and cherish it as a collectable.

 

Today, we rely to heavily on others opinions just so we can fit in, so we will not to be scoffed at, or even ridiculed for owning or wanting to own, in the eyes of another, a marginal coin.

 

If having opinions “stuck” to one of your possessions gives you comfort, increases the value, then by all means seek that level of expertise.

 

As a matter of fact, exploit it!

 

If you don’t want to learn about coins or are only in it for investment reasons, by all means seek out professional or semi-professional advice before even thinking about buying an investment coin.

 

However your needs reflect your attitude about this hobby, there are no wrong answers to the question posed, nor are they any right answers either.

 

Each one of you needs to follow your conative assessment of just where you are in the hobby and go from there. Be it slabbed, stickered or just raw in a Dansco, enjoy your coins and don’t worry about what others are doing just to fit in.

 

Note: I have included the dictionary definitions so word association is not misconstrued. Also, my very last statement is not directed at the OP or anyone else in this thread, it is a broad inclusive statement and is opinionated in nature.

 

 

Psychological:

1 a: of or relating to psychology b: mental

2: directed toward the will or toward the mind specifically in its conative function

 

Conative:: an inclination (as an instinct, a drive, a wish, or a craving) to act purposefully : impulse 3

 

 

[MarkFeld]

Looking for CAC endorsement involves a large outlay of money

Do you guys know what the fee is for CAC to review coins? I do, and unless you have an especially large number of coins reviewed, I wouldn't exactly call it a "large outlay"

[coinman1794]

Being that the fee is for a second opinion, I think that even $20 per coin could be seen as excessive to some.

[MarkFeld]

Being that the fee is for a second opinion, I think that even $20 per coin could be seen as excessive to some.

Unless the coins are insured/valued at $10,000 or more, currently, the fee is $10/coin. Regardless, if that's "excessive", what do you call the crossover fees that grading companies charge for a "second opinion"?

[gmarguli]

Being that the fee is for a second opinion, I think that even $20 per coin could be seen as excessive to some.

Unless the coins are insured/valued at $10,000 or more, currently, the fee is $10/coin. Regardless, if that's "excessive", what do you call the crossover fees that grading companies charge for a "second opinion"?

 

I'd call them apples to oranges.

[MarkFeld]

Being that the fee is for a second opinion, I think that even $20 per coin could be seen as excessive to some.

Unless the coins are insured/valued at $10,000 or more, currently, the fee is $10/coin. Regardless, if that's "excessive", what do you call the crossover fees that grading companies charge for a "second opinion"?

 

I'd call them apples to oranges.

I'd call them a second expert opinion to a second expert opinion.

[bsshog40]

Being that the fee is for a second opinion, I think that even $20 per coin could be seen as excessive to some.

Unless the coins are insured/valued at $10,000 or more, currently, the fee is $10/coin. Regardless, if that's "excessive", what do you call the crossover fees that grading companies charge for a "second opinion"?

I have to admit Mark, that is a good point!

[MarkFeld]

Being that the fee is for a second opinion, I think that even $20 per coin could be seen as excessive to some.

Unless the coins are insured/valued at $10,000 or more, currently, the fee is $10/coin. Regardless, if that's "excessive", what do you call the crossover fees that grading companies charge for a "second opinion"?

I have to admit Mark, that is a good point!

Bobby, you don't HAVE to if you don't want to.

 

[cpm9ball]

If I were thinking of buying a set (it doesn't matter what denomination) in which some have and some don't have the stickers, it would have no bearing on what I would be willing to pay. If I didn't like the looks of the coins, it wouldn't make any difference whose seal of approval was attached to them.

 

Chris

[bsshog40]

My personal opinion is I don't really care if a coin has a CAC sticker or not. I buy a coin if it catches my eye and is what I would like to have in my collection. If I were to sell an individual collection/type set all at once and half didn't have stickers, it really wouldn't bother me and unless a person is only interested in a slab and sticker instead of the actual coin, it shouldn't bother anyone else either.

[coinman1794]

Being that the fee is for a second opinion, I think that even $20 per coin could be seen as excessive to some.

Unless the coins are insured/valued at $10,000 or more, currently, the fee is $10/coin. Regardless, if that's "excessive", what do you call the crossover fees that grading companies charge for a "second opinion"?

 

I don't consider it excessive, myself, but I'm sure some do. It's the same price as a designation review. I don't get the comparison between Crossovers and CAC stickering, however; the amount of work involved from start to finish is substancially less in the stickering process.

 

 

 

[MarkFeld]

I don't get the comparison between Crossovers and CAC stickering, however; the amount of work involved from start to finish is substancially less in the stickering process.

 

If a coin submitted for crossover is rejected, there's no more work involved than there is for a CAC review. And either way, the crossover fee is more costly, considerably so, depending upon the tier that is used.

[coinman1794]

I don't get the comparison between Crossovers and CAC stickering, however; the amount of work involved from start to finish is substancially less in the stickering process.

 

If a coin submitted for crossover is rejected, there's no more work involved than there is for a CAC review. And either way, the crossover fee is more costly, considerably so, depending upon the tier that is used.

 

Yes, but if a coin does cross, then the grading service must worry about cracking the coin out, handling the raw coin, holdering the raw coin, reviewing the quality of the finished product (quality control), and throwing away that environmentaly destructive plastic shell. If a coin gets CACed, it gets a sticker fused onto the window after its limited examination (they can only grade two sides of the coin, and maybe less if the holder is scratched up).

 

 

 

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Being that the fee is for a second opinion, I think that even $20 per coin could be seen as excessive to some.

Unless the coins are insured/valued at $10,000 or more, currently, the fee is $10/coin. Regardless, if that's "excessive", what do you call the crossover fees that grading companies charge for a "second opinion"?

 

I'd call them apples to oranges.

I'd call them a second expert opinion to a second expert opinion.

I have to agree with Greg. CAC emphatically claims it is NOT a grading company. But a grading company is required to "cross" coins. Therefore, the "apples to oranges" analogy holds.

 

$10 to me is very excessive when one considers that the very large majority of coins typically bought and sold are under $100 in value. And the $10 fee does not include postage and the risk of loss, which are both real costs.

 

(Of course, these same costs apply to TPGs.)

[ant]

there are some id like to send to get stickered but i dont know if they will still be arround in 10-20 yrs. they havnt been out long and there is far too much confussion to be comfy with them.

 

also we have all seen coins change in holder and the sticker from yr1 might not be worth a darn in 3-5 yrs due to the coin changing in holder. sort of like all the brown pennies that are marked red.

[MarkFeld]

$10 to me is very excessive when one considers that the very large majority of coins typically bought and sold are under $100 in value. And the $10 fee does not include postage and the risk of loss, which are both real costs.

James, if you're speaking of "under $100 in value" coins, then they probably shouldn't be submitted to CAC for review, OR to a grading company for crossover. And crossover fees also include "postage and the risk of loss, which are both real costs" either. So that part of your apples to oranges argument is kaput.

[James_OldeTowne]

Mark, the point is that there is some level at which $10, which is probably more realistically $20 (taking into account additional costs of shipping, etc.) is an excessive "tax". Even if we are speaking of $400 coins, that is still a five percent addition to the cost of the coin on top of the cost of certification! At what point does one draw the line and say enough is enough??

 

I love the idea of second opinions (and third and fourth). And, when convenient, I have many numismatic friends who are glad to do so for me without costing me a penny.

 

Put it a different way. Just how much more "tax" should coin collectors enjoy paying for their coins? I personally am sick to death of taxes.

[MarkFeld]

Mark, the point is that there is some level at which $10, which is probably more realistically $20 (taking into account additional costs of shipping, etc.) is an excessive "tax". Even if we are speaking of $400 coins, that is still a five percent addition to the cost of the coin on top of the cost of certification! At what point does one draw the line and say enough is enough??

 

I love the idea of second opinions (and third and fourth). And, when convenient, I have many numismatic friends who are glad to do so for me without costing me a penny.

 

Put it a different way. Just how much more "tax" should coin collectors enjoy paying for their coins? I personally am sick to death of taxes.

James, of course there is some level (for the value of the coins being submitted) at which a $10 or $20 fee is "excessive". But that wasn't what was being discussed when you jumped in. The discussion concerned a comparison between CAC fees and cross-over fees. And regardless of what you think of them, on a relative basis, the CAC fees are considerably less.

[okbustchaser]

I can't answer for anyone else, but, to me it would make no difference whether the coin CACed or not. 10 minutes after I decided to buy a CACed coin it would no longer have the sticker.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, it wouldn't have the slab either.

[James_OldeTowne]

James, of course there is some level (for the value of the coins being submitted) at which a $10 or $20 fee is "excessive". But that wasn't what was being discussed when you jumped in. The discussion concerned a comparison between CAC fees and cross-over fees. And regardless of what you think of them, on a relative basis, the CAC fees are considerably less.

My apologies if I've diverted the discussion. Here's where I thought the discussion went into the direction of "excessive fees":

 

Looking for CAC endorsement involves a large outlay of money

Do you guys know what the fee is for CAC to review coins? I do, and unless you have an especially large number of coins reviewed, I wouldn't exactly call it a "large outlay"

[TJ'S Coins]

Mike's original question was in regard to CAC stickering for his Capped Bust Half collection. This is also a series that I collect too. Mike has collected a fine set of coins over the years, in the AU range, if I remember correctly. Mine are in the EF range some lower a few higher. Mike has collected TPG Coins. Mine have been cracked out of their TPG holder and placed in Eagle 2X2's. Mike has already absorbed the cost of the TPG when purchasing them graded. I would have to absorb both the TPG and CAC stickering fee to have my coins in the same position that Mike is proposing. To me the CAC stickering would be an additional outlay, on top of the grading fees, if I were to be in the same position as Mike.

 

Personally I do not need to have my CBH coins slabbed and stickered. I like'em just the way they are - raw. For the reasons given, CAC would be a cost I would not want to incur selling my coins at this time.