IMAGES ADDED!!! "Blue Ribbon" conservation really paid off for me this weekend!

[James_OldeTowne]

This weekend, I picked up a good sized box of coins from a vest-pocket dealer - mostly common stuff and low-grade coins - pretty junky, but cheap - which is what I can best afford . There were a few busties I wanted, so that's why I even bothered with it. I was told that the coins were from an estate sale.

 

Anyhow, many of the copper coins (IHCs, half-cents, large-cents, etc.) were grungy, including an assortment of two-cent coins that were really grungy and caked with dirt. Four were common 1864s - or so I thought. I decided to "blue ribbon" the heck out of all the two-cent coins, because otherwise, they just look like junk. Several remained junk even after removal of the gunk. As it worked out, a couple of the coins turned out pretty nice. But the one that made my day was ...

 

an 1864 small motto !!!!!!!!!

 

That coin was so grossly covered in gunk that apparently, no previous owner had ever bothered to check it out. But now, I am the glad owner of an 1864 "small motto" two-cent coin in VG-8, and surprisingly, it has very decent surfaces.

 

Sometimes, conservation really does pay off.

 

I'll try to capture images later on today - it was late last night when I was messing with these.

[Just Bob]

Wow! Congratulations!! (thumbs u

[jman425]

Explain the "blue ribbon" process, James...

[bsshog40]

Awesome find there James!!!

[GDJMSP]

James I am kind of surprised that you consider treating a coin with Blue Ribbon as conservation. Yeah, it is used a cleaner, but it also leaves an oily film on the coins. It is often considered to be more of a coin conditioner than a cleaner to make coins look better than they really are. I also understood that any coins treated with the stuff would be considered to have altered surfaces and be ungradeable.

 

Please correct me if I am mistaken.

[gmarguli]

The oily film can be reduced to a proper level where it is no longer a distraction. Providing the coin is not a bodybag before the proper application of Blue Ribbon, it should not bag after the application.

 

One thing to watch for is Blue Ribbon coated copper can easily hide prior cleanings.

[jesbroken]

Greg, just for my knowledge, is the BlueRibbon process what makes many of the brown Lincoln Cents you see on ebay shiny or coated looking even when only VF or worse? Just asking as I thought this was varnish. Thanks, Jim.

[gmarguli]

Possibly. There are lots of oils that will give it the shiny look.

[James_OldeTowne]

Here's a quick image - not my usual lighting arrangement (I shot the images over breakfast). The only difference is lighting angle, and I'd say the bottom images are closest to reality. The top images are intentionally angled to reflect more light to show surface texture.

 

Remember that this coin was totally caked with gunk, to the point that the date was barely discernible, and the motto was entirely covered. Even after swabbing the heck out of it with the Blue Ribbon, you'll note that there's still plenty of grungy build-up. I could continue dissolving this stuff, but to me, it's conserved just to the point that it needs to be. My goal wasn't to "enhance" the coin, but rather to remove contaminants and reveal hidden detail. As mentioned before, that "hidden detail" happened to include a small motto!

 

I was careful to remove all Blue Ribbon residue. The coin does not have an oily or "varnished" look at all. It just looks simply normal to my eye, and there's no question whatsoever in my mind that it would slab.

 

I went through at least three Q-tips with this coin - that's how bad it was. The gunk was disgusting green and black, and I'm sure some PVC was involved. I'm sorry I don't have "before" images, but I wasn't expecting anything important enough to warrant archival images!!

 

Comments welcome, particularly regarding the value of conservation.

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Explain the "blue ribbon" process, James...

I just followed common sense in this case. I used genuine "Q-tips", since they have a paper stem, instead of the plastic stems that clone products have. I saturated the cotton swab and first coated the coin. I let it set in for a couple of minutes, then swabbed the dirt off, generally from the center toward the edges. At times, I had to really scrub in a circular motion for the stubborn dirt. This process, I repeated about three times.

 

After the initial applications, I used a final dry Q-tip and wiped until the Blue Ribbon seemed to be gone (no gloss), and finally, I used a Q-tip dipped in distilled water to really get the Blue Ribbon off, and the result is what you see in the images above.

 

James I am kind of surprised that you consider treating a coin with Blue Ribbon as conservation. Yeah, it is used a cleaner, but it also leaves an oily film on the coins. It is often considered to be more of a coin conditioner than a cleaner to make coins look better than they really are. I also understood that any coins treated with the stuff would be considered to have altered surfaces and be ungradeable.

 

Please correct me if I am mistaken.

No, I think that you are generally correct in that Blue Ribbon has sometimes been used to "enhance" the appearance of coins. But that's a somewhat subjective statement. I personally do not like the "oily" look at all, and can't stand when someone has a case full of greasy copper coins. To this regard, as explained above, I used a finishing dry Q-tip application to ensure as much of the oil was gone as was possible, then a final wet (distilled water) Q-tip application to ensure thorough removal of the oil.

 

I may need to shoot some better images when I get a chance, but the surfaces of the coin in question do not appear greasy at all. They just look "normal".

 

I suspect that coins that retain that Blue Ribbon "varnished" or greasy appearance may have been intentionally left so. My experiment seems to demonstrate that after the Blue Ribbon has been used for conservation, it may be entirely removed to leave just the coin surfaces visible, and not "doctored", in a loose sense of the word. Phrased another way, I am saying that one has a choice of whether or not to retain the Blue Ribbon residue on the coin, and my personal preference is not to retain it. I suspect an acetone bath would truly ensure no oil remains on the coin, and I may opt to do so with this coin later.

 

I'm open to discussion on this topic, though!

 

Edited to add: forgot to request grade opinions...

[physics-fan3.14]

Explain the "blue ribbon" process, James...

I just followed common sense in this case. I used genuine "Q-tips", since they have a paper stem, instead of the plastic stems that clone products have. I saturated the cotton swab and first coated the coin. I let it set in for a couple of minutes, then swabbed the dirt off, generally from the center toward the edges. At times, I had to really scrub in a circular motion for the stubborn dirt. This process, I repeated about three times.

 

Edited to add: forgot to request grade opinions...

 

Does scrubbing like this leave any visible hairlines, especially under magnification? I would be leery of applying too much pressure, even with something soft like a Qtip.

 

And my guess for the grade is F-12. That's just a guess, mind you. Looks like a nice coin.

[James_OldeTowne]

Does scrubbing like this leave any visible hairlines, especially under magnification? I would be leery of applying too much pressure, even with something soft like a Qtip.

 

And my guess for the grade is F-12. That's just a guess, mind you. Looks like a nice coin.

Because Blue Ribbon is a lubricant (or at least, contains lubricants), I think it is possible to be judicious with the amount of pressure applied, and to avoid imparting hairlines. That said, there is a real and present danger there, in my opinion. I would say that I scrubbed the coins actually fairly aggressively, but assuming the Blue Ribbon isn't "hiding" something, I don't think I caused any hairlines.

 

Good question!

[MBA101]

Wouldn't a prolonged olive oil bath worked just as well?

[James_OldeTowne]

Wouldn't a prolonged olive oil bath worked just as well?

That, I wouldn't know. If so, it could have taken a VERY long time.

 

I really wish I had taken images of the coin with the gunk still caked on....

[RGT]

Because Blue Ribbon is a lubricant (or at least, contains lubricants), I think it is possible to be judicious with the amount of pressure applied, and to avoid imparting hairlines. That said, there is a real and present danger there, in my opinion. I would say that I scrubbed the coins actually fairly aggressively, but assuming the Blue Ribbon isn't "hiding" something, I don't think I caused any hairlines.

 

Good question!

 

While the Blue Ribbon may keep the cotton from causing hairlines you have to be even more careful with really grungy coins. It's more likely the grit removed from the surface will hairline the coin than the swab itself. Change swabs often when they start to get dirty fast.

[James_OldeTowne]

While the Blue Ribbon may keep the cotton from causing hairlines you have to be even more careful with really grungy coins. It's more likely the grit removed from the surface will hairline the coin than the swab itself. Change swabs often when they start to get dirty fast.

Randy, thanks for reinforcing this. You are correct, and it's why I went through several Q-tips (a whole bunch for all the coins I conserved). Basically, only un-dirty Q-tip surface should ever touch the coin. One way to do this is to "roll" the Q-tip head in the opposite direction that you are rubbing it over the coin, so that the dirt is rolled away from the surface area being wiped.

[DJCoinz]

Hey, awesome find.

[robec1347]

About a year ago I posted this 1909 VDB to get some thoughts on it. I can't remember who it was, but someone said that it was a prime candidate for some Blue Ribbon treatment. As you can see by the first images of the obverse and reverse, there is some type of contamination in the letters and date.

 

I certainly didn't use the treatment to hide any abnormality, but to rid the coin of the gunk that is on it. I've had the coin for at least 30 years and have no plans to profit from the treatment. I mean how rich are you going to get with a common '09 VDB?

 

 

BEFORE

 

 

AFTER

 

 

 

 

 

[GDJMSP]

 

I suspect that coins that retain that Blue Ribbon "varnished" or greasy appearance may have been intentionally left so. My experiment seems to demonstrate that after the Blue Ribbon has been used for conservation, it may be entirely removed to leave just the coin surfaces visible, and not "doctored", in a loose sense of the word. Phrased another way, I am saying that one has a choice of whether or not to retain the Blue Ribbon residue on the coin, and my personal preference is not to retain it. I suspect an acetone bath would truly ensure no oil remains on the coin, and I may opt to do so with this coin later.

 

I'm open to discussion on this topic, though!

 

This is one of the problems I see with using this product or others like it - then you have to figure out a way to remove the oils. That always means another treatment, and acetone and copper don't always mix well. For that matter, copper doesn't usally react well with any solvent - and it will take a solvent to get rid of the oil.

 

But don't misunderstand, I'm all for conservation or doing what you can to prevent a coin from undergoing further damage due to contaminants. I just question the product you used. It has been my experience that most who use Blue Ribbon seldom use it for conservation.

[PerryHall]

Doesn't a light coating of Blue Ribbon protect the surface of copper from future corrosion?

[GDJMSP]

Sure it will, just like oil protects your car engine or gun oil your rifle or pistol. Coins are made of metal, oil protects metal.

 

But proper storage will aso protect your coins - without using oil, or anything else that has to be put on the coin.

[Architecht]

Wouldn't a prolonged olive oil bath worked just as well?

 

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