Does anything bother you about this NGC slab?

[MikeInFL]

http://cgi.ebay.com/1796-DRAPED-BUST-BB-61-B-4-SILVER-DOLLAR-NGC-AU53_W0QQitemZ120202162130QQihZ002QQcategoryZ11976QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

 

You guys have sharper eyes than me. Take a look...Mike

 

p.s. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.

[harvey8542]

Have we not seen this one before?

[realone]

Yes most definitely,Either way great eyes Mike.

Edited to say I thought best not to help them like a dummy.

[michael]

looks counterfeit to me with three obvious mistakes

 

which i have no doubt in the future the seller will correct

 

 

 

 

[MikeInFL]

Not my eyes. I plagarized. Just thought you guys might appreciate a reminder.

 

Luckily there are lots of other warning signs in this auction, next time we might not be so lucky...Mike

[PerryHall]

Rare coin + China seller = No freakin way.

[toyonakataro]

If the seller send it to NGC for reholder, will workers at NGC notice it's a counterfeit?

If they can't and reholder it, then the seller will have a fake coin in real NGC slab ??

[e1cnr]

the real coin with that insert sold at Heritage

 

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=67073&Lot_No=23237#

 

 

 

[Just Bob]

Welcome to the boards, e1cnr!

 

 

What if this had been an American seller with good feedback numbers?! This is scary!!

[bsshog40]

I really don't know if I get what he is saying here!

 

"It is extremely rare to have the high degree collects and keep the worth a work ! The opportunity that do not miss the winning it. Coin is exactly as pictures and describe you will received".

[rrantique]

Hi welcome and Merry Christmas.

[MarkFeld]

EBay has now been notified by NGC. By the way, I believe that the seller's Lafayette Dollar is also counterfeit and suspect the same about his Japanese Yen, as well.

[BillJones]

Well I don't know what you fellows are so up set about. It's obviously a new die variety, the 1796 off-center bust variety, which is a perfect match for the 1795 piece that features the same bust centering.

 

Seriously this is scary stuff. Putting a counterfeit coin in a convincing counterfeit NGC slab is as bad for numismatics as the lead paint scandal is for toys.

 

[awb]

Can someone explain why the certificate says S$1, for silver dollar? I thought they only did that (S$1, T$1, G$1) in years where more than one type of dollar coin was minted. The silver dollar was the only one that year, so isn't the S redundant?

 

(The Heritage-linked image shows this, too, so I assume that part is legitimate.)

[MarkFeld]

Can someone explain why the certificate says S$1, for silver dollar? I thought they only did that (S$1, T$1, G$1) in years where more than one type of dollar coin was minted. The silver dollar was the only one that year, so isn't the S redundant?

 

(The Heritage-linked image shows this, too, so I assume that part is legitimate.)

I believe it is always done that way, even though it is redundant in many instances.

[MarkFeld]

I see Ebay has removed the counterfeit listings - hopefully it wasn't too late.

[CHABSENTIA]

This type of coin in the slab is not my area here so I will just have to guess.

 

I ran the number on the slab through NGC and it came up as a valid number.The certification data here on NGC came up the same as the picture data here on the slab.

 

 

Other than the fact that the Seller is from China and as only 8 feedbacks I assume that since one can verify the certification number that it is the coin itslf that is questionable.?

 

Either that or there is no such coin and it slipped by the graders.

 

Thanks

[MarkFeld]

The counterfeit labels differed a bit from genuine ones (but most people would easily miss it) and the various coins ranged from suspicious to apparent as counterfeits.

[jackson64]

I agree with mark..the subtle differences of these counterfeits can be almost impossible to see---something as small as an improper serif on a letter....it is very scary, I don't know that I pay enough attention to the slabs to always catch this...

[jman425]

Think all these foreign coins are genuine NGC / PCGS slabs ?

 

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZben1688

[gmarguli]

Think all these foreign coins are genuine NGC / PCGS slabs ?

 

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZben1688

 

I looked at about a dozen of the coins/slabs and they are fine. In fact, I'm almost 100% positive that some of them I slabbed and sold to this seller.

 

I also looked at a few of the NNC graded coins and they looked authentic.

[MarkFeld]

l looked at about a dozen of the coins/slabs and they are fine. In fact, I'm almost 100% positive that some of them I slabbed and sold to this seller.

Greg, YOU slabbed them or NGC slabbed them?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gmarguli]

l looked at about a dozen of the coins/slabs and they are fine. In fact, I'm almost 100% positive that some of them I slabbed and sold to this seller.

Greg, YOU slabbed them or NGC slabbed them?

 

Well, I'd prefer not to make the details public, but lets just say that I have an arrangement with NGC where for a fee they will slab coins I send to them.

[coindude420-migration]

.

[Pushkin-migration]

 

Don't worry folks. As soon as the government starts to carry out full enforcement of the COOL (country of origin labeling) laws that are on the books all of these counterfeits, no matter how high the quality, will have to have Made In China stamped on them.

[Just Bob]

Don't worry folks. As soon as the government starts to carry out full enforcement of the COOL (country of origin labeling) laws that are on the books all of these counterfeits, no matter how high the quality, will have to have Made In China stamped on them.

 

Maybe I am just being cynical, but I can't imagine that someone who sells counterfeit coins in counterfeit slabs would be too concerned about our laws. I can think of four ways to circumvent the law just off the top of my head!

[Conder101]

I ran the number on the slab through NGC and it came up as a valid number.The certification data here on NGC came up the same as the picture data here on the slab.

 

 

Other than the fact that the Seller is from China and as only 8 feedbacks I assume that since one can verify the certification number that it is the coin itself that is questionable.?

Running the serial number through the NGC database is meaningless. This coin was discussed ATS and they went through the Heritage Archives and found something interesting. The first picture is the fake slab from eBay, the second is from the Heritage archives.

 

If you look carefully you will note that although they both claim to be the same coin and serial number the coins are different and the labels are slightly different in layout as well. So we know that it is not just two appearances of the same slab.

 

So when you run the serial number from the fake eBay slab, it comes up as genuine because the data base is actually referencing the real coin from the Heritage archives.

And yes the coin in the fake eBay slab is also a fake. Although it is dated 1796, it is based on a die variety from 1795. They just changed the date in their die. So the coin being fake brought the slab into question and we realized that the slab was fake as well. Two counterfeits for the price of one.

 

[CHABSENTIA]

Thanks.So I guess I was correct in noting that you would have ot know the coin. In this case I would be out of ther picture as I am not familar with that type coin and would not consider it.

 

 

The other point would be the Scanner and the Photography or both. If one is good in these fields then it wouldn't be hard to make the second slab look more like the first.

 

Color can be taken out and put in so when you get down to it then it is the Coin itself which is the Final test.

 

This is scary and why I look to staying in areas which I am pretty much familar or learning about a new area as much as possible before committing any real dollars