JKK

There are sensible ways of avoiding one's past ignorances by creating a new account, and foolish ways. One of those is to refer back to what one said on their previous account. It boggles my mind that people think we won't pick up on that.

Just because some people scorn microscopes (and love to heap derision upon them and those who use them) doesn't mean that their guidance comes from Mt. Sinai on graven stone tablets. We do not grade with magnification, as a general rule, except at very high grade levels that most people never see on any coin that is not very modern. However, to understand damage or errors, magnification can be helpful. It's especially helpful with detection of cleaning and determination of cleaning methods and severity. Most of the time that means a loupe or a head-worn magnifier, or a lamp with a big lens and a collapsible arm. For spotting repunched mint marks, for example, a microscope can be quite helpful; same for forensics such as described with cleaning. If the lower forms of mag do not help you, then it's perfectly okay to use more powerful mag--but remember that if we can't see a mark with the naked eye, we don't consider it a grading factor. For example, take a look at virtually every coin properly posted in this forum. How many of them are blown up to the size of coffee coasters on your screen? All of them. That's magnification, and it's helpful enough that everyone does it in order to assess some specific situations. What would everyone say if someone posted the coins so they would appear original size on the screen? Even if they were correctly cropped, everyone would admonish the poster to blow them up. That simple fact highlights the value of blown-up views. Just bear in mind the limits of magnification, especially from a grading standpoint.

The best way to accumulate a great many false hopes and misperceptions is to watch online videos on coin collecting. They've got everyone convinced that they're going to find Rare Mint Errors in their pockets. That group then comes here to announce to us that they have a Rare Mint Error--and to ask our opinions, demand our validation, or some level of civility in between. We tirelessly tell several a day that no, they can't retire off that parking lot coin or dryer coin. If you are seriously interested in coins, however, you can hang out here and learn a lot. Start off by assuming that anything you found on videos is until proven otherwise.

It def does not.

Well, the outcome there is that you should no longer trust that coin dealer's knowledge. There's zero good reason to think this was struck (not stamped) on the wrong planchet.

I think it's simply that you are incapable of seeing this hobby at least, and perhaps other things, from any perspective except your own. When there is only one valid and rational perspective, and therefore all others are invalid and irrational, why bother to be considerate? It would be very liberating to just say whatever one wants without giving two rips how anyone feels (and you have stated how pleased you are that you act in such a way, so I am only echoing what you have said about it before). There are terms for that, and you have the vocabulary to know them.

Then you have the power to say "no" each time.

Yes. Very well. US$60, then.

No, you should not. It would be about as sensible as paying $60 for a Big Mac.

Also, among the coins you buy to test them, pick at least one with amazing eye appeal. Doesn't have to be expensive, just really eye-catching. When you get it home, see just how much of a premium you were charged for that prettiness. While eye appeal does have a role in grading, smart dealers will put like a gorgeous toner out there and raise the price quite a bit, on the logic that one of two things happens: a) it draws the eye to the case, and the longer people look, the more likely they are to buy; b) while it's not really priced to sell, just to display, if it does sell it will be getting massive margin. This will help you see just how sneaky that dealer is. Lastly, don't be innumerate. Innumerate people think that a $9 coin for which they were charged $10 is 'just a buck, not that bad,' and no different than a $29 coin for which the dealer asked $30. No, no, no, no, no. The first one doesn't just have a 10% premium, but slightly more; either way, 10% or 11.1% is a huge jump. The second is just above 3%. The two differences are a world of difference in value received, and too many shoppers these days do not process these realities. In the case of some of the younger ones, they can't. The education system we put them through placed more value on building their self-esteem and pretending that society cared what happened to them than teaching them f-bombing math. A couple months back I brought in four six-packs of cans and bottles for recycling (10c each in Oregon; I want my f-bombing $2.40 back). The young woman could not see "four, six, multiplied, twenty-four." She had to count them starting at one. It's that bad--and she's a cashier, for gods' sake. So if you find yourself tempted to think that the first $1 difference and the second are the same, remember the scales involved. Apologies if you're an accountant or some other person well versed in math, or if you at least went to school back in the timeframe when people actually learned it. In that case I'm preaching to the choir and no offense meant.

It's not even worth looking at, truth told. It is worth 10c.

The scratches look pretty faint in that picture. Photos can be misleading, though.

There's a pretty good way to check that. Go to the shop and buy a few inexpensive coins that you'd like to have. Take them home. Go over them with the grading guide in hand and check their grading in detail. Once you have arrived at conservative grades (on the logic that shops should err in the direction of undergrading if they are going to err), look them up in price guides and get some sold listing comparisons on EB. This will give you a pretty good idea of what kind of value, competence, and honesty you can expect from that dealer, and obviously you can't do most of that in the store. If you find that you got a bad deal, you then get to test whether you can return coins to that dealer. Don't tell them the truth about why; just say you decided to go in a different direction. Most people would say differently, but most Americans have this quaint notion that if consumers expose themselves to potential hassle and chastisement by giving businesses feedback, the world will become a better place because businesses will improve. Nah, especially not in the small-shop coin business, which is generally run by autists who are never going to improve. You're not planning to shop there anymore, but you might someday for whatever reason, so it's best to avoid having a debate. Just be vague. If you think about it, an overgrading, overpricing ripoff house doesn't really deserve a reward such as constructive criticism.

It's cool to find, but not worth a bunch of money. With sharp photos we will probably be able to suss out the date, which is very likely 1935-37. Mint would be under the hill the bison stands on, and I don't see any. Dealer would probably have it in a Buff junk tray for 20c. Simply put, they are very common in this condition and thus supply massively outguns demand.

I assume you are specifying sold listings. Anyone can put whatever price they wish on something; that doesn't mean anyone will pay it. What someone paid is a datum.

This is the variety called 'hot garbage.' The coin is badly enough corroded that any other varieties do not matter and are pointless to explore.

No problem. It's one of those situations that requires rotating the chessboard, so to speak. If the OP keeps adding coins to the thread (which they ought not to be doing), that's one thing; at least any replies are to one of their coins. Far as I am concerned, if they get confused and have no idea which one we're talking about, that's excellent because it'll teach them why we tell them to post one coin per thread. But when a second poster comes in, now it's not even clear to whom replies are. We do get that people hesitate to start new threads because threadspamming is a major faux pas on some forums, and that using an existing thread is normally considered a good thing in other places. On top of that, if they have fifteen coins, there's the natural question: "You really want me to post fifteen threads? You won't get mad?" It's a fair question. The answer is yeah, we really do want them to, but I can see why people feel a little nervous about that. On some forums that would get one's butt thrown right off there--but not here. (It being almost impossible to get one's butt thrown off this one, which has made it a great haven for some huge dill doughs, but that's another topic.)

For one thing, you're posting it in someone else's thread, when the preferred practice is to start a new one. Otherwise people responding have to figure out what a given post is talking about, which is a pain, so many of us will just ignore it.

I doubt it, if the grading has a financial motive. I'd like to see evidence that someone has actually paid $60 or so for an example.

Looks pretty original to me, and rather nice. Not sure how obvious the notable scratch on the cheek is, but that and some field scratches in front of her nose would seem to me to be the grade limiters, along with what might be a pretty good ding under TRUST. The first are in prime focal areas, so the question is how obvious those are without magnification. We see blown-up pics of coins so often it's easy to forget that grading is without magnification, and what's obvious to us here might be less so in hand. If those are still obvious in hand, I think this tops at 63. If they look relatively faint in hand, perhaps 64-65. I think there are enough scattered contact marks to keep it from going much higher. I think if you get it in the mid-$500s you probably got a very good deal. That's competitive 63 pricing. 64 would send it up around $800-900. If it were 65, competitive pricing would be closer to $2000 or so. So whatever they're asking, you can tell what grade they think it is by the price. Then you can decide if that's a fair grade (we'll help).

I don't see any errors, but the way you asked is okay because it lets experienced people scrutinize your coins and see if they find anything that's an error. Those would normally jump out at us like neon signs if they were real errors. If/when no one notices any, maybe then it's important to explain what it is you think might be an error. The only time you need to be specific right off the bat is if the error is very small, hard to see in a full photo. Speaking of which, very nice photos. You pretty much did it right, which is more than can be said for most first-timers.

In case it's of interest to you, it shows that you have done some homework. Nicely done; you have accelerated your path out of the Usual Questions Everyone Asks That We Don't Mind Answering But Are Eager To Move On From And Start Talking About More Interesting Numismatic Aspects. It's fun to watch when someone sees the passing lane, uses it, puts the hammer down, and skips some of the dull steps. Short version: As you seem to have sussed out already, finding modern coins that are rare and valuable is very uncommon. The whole striking it rich through pocket change thing is bunkum. It's all much more difficult than that. You can see examples all over: That which looks too good to be true looks that way for a clear reason. Welcome. If you ever decide that ancients are your thing, bong a gong or something to get my attention, and we'll start you down that specialized path. Otherwise, most people here know more than me, and since you're open to actual learning, will teach you all you want to learn.

The thing is to get through to why they imagine they should clean them. Two customary assumptions: The more "shinny" the coin, the more valuable it is. No one will ever catch them at it. (You can almost see the little smirks on their faces as they dismiss the reflex answers. "Yeah," they think, "but their just a bunch of grumpy boomers who are'nt so smart.") The truth: In the first place, anyone too dumb to spell "shiny" is too dumb to collect coins. Makes me gag. But in fact, this whole perception is false. There are natural looks and unnatural looks, and cleaning (especially during amateur hour, when some imbecile goes to work with Brasso or a wire brush) makes nearly all coins look unnatural. A worn coin is not supposed to look shiny. Shiny is not automatically good. Natural is good. Damaged is bad. Amateur cleaners damage. In the second, the only people who can do it without us catching it know who they are, and they aren't novices. There aren't a great many. There's one in our club. Anyone who has to ask anything on any coin board about it is almost surely not one of those experts. Just asking the question is interpreted as: "Hi. I'm not only a fool, but I have no idea how great a fool I am." We use magnification, scrutiny, and experience to catch the cleaned coins. We know more about it than novices. Some of us use powerful coin microscopes and we can see abrasive cleaning scratches like they were furrows in a plowed field. Doesn't mean we're special, just that we've been at it a while and invested time and money. Those of us who have learned some whens and whys have typically paid tuition for that. Did I succeed in blowing the bronze disease off an ancient copper that looked like it was covered in smurf snot? Yeah. But I only did that because the coin was literally deteriorating and needed rescue. You'll only penetrate their skulls by refuting the underlying reasoning. And even then, only sometimes.

Here's the best argument I can make to help prevent you from wasting your money. Suppose you spend $250 for plastic and to have it confirmed that the coins are no big deal (overwhelming likelihood). How much coin could you have bought for $250? For that I can get two Roman Republic denarii in nice condition and have money to spare for a decent bronze. I could also get a very respectable bustie (early 1800s capped bust half). I could just about get a lower-grade 1914-D cent. How much for gold $1 coins these days? Pretty sure one is within that financial reach. Or I could have plastic that tells me my coins are of minimal value. If that doesn't move you, you're dead set on it, and I can do nothing but watch helplessly.

Probably artificial toning. One way to do this is a certain kind of heat treatment. Probably making good money bilking the rubes, who look and think "ooohhhh shinny" (most of them don't spell too well) and that "shinny is better, so pretty pretty rainbow colors are better still."