RichieRich2020

14 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

I cannot help but feel our learned colleague, VKurtB, is an outlier, erudite and confident enough to consult historical sources at will, and quote them freely with such well-lubricated ease that one may attempt to engage him only at one's peril. I, for one, am both impressed and intimidated. This thread lost me by going off on a tangent with mines. Next thing I know, someone will sweep us along on a spelunking safari. Onlookers to the fray fervently pray Zink Zonk under contract with NGC (at least in my mind) will exterminate the nuisance pestilence this strain of thread has devolved into, but rest assured, we haven't lost a single (allegedly) disinterested party who regularly monitor the site quietly, without comment. Poor RichieRich2020, he never got the validation he sought and matte whatevers are not my area of expertise.

No sweat at all my friend .  Infact im still very happy and overjoyed with the fact that the most that could be offered about the coins unique finish was experimental theories and expert guessing which continues to indicate that it is A ONE OF A KIND ....  i also have to honestly say that I too couldn't help but notice the temper-tantrums that were being thrown by these seasoned members who were seeking to hopefully water down my post with their own irrelevant discussion about mines . Which sad to say I choose to completely ignore since I love demonstrating what being mature is from time to time.  But anyway ....  I've still enjoyed every second of these lessons and theories about the coins finish because it was very intriguing and very amusing at the same time 😉

1 hour ago, Conder101 said:

I wouldn't bother with wax for sandblasting or laser, Wax would be for acid etching.  And I mentioned how to remove the wax afterward.  And a brief boil in water will remove enough of the wax that you would probably need a scanning electron microscope to find traces in the grooves.

Well thats a very excellent theory and maybe you should give it try in a little experiment just to see if it produces the same frosted finish because it sounds simple enough plus i would be very interested in seeing what it would actually look like 

8 hours ago, Morpheus1967 said:

*you're

Also, if you like to do your own research, rather than taking to heart what people here are telling you, then why did you even solicit opinions here in the first place?  

So sorry but Im not taking anything to heart lad infact i believe that you may have that the other way around if your reading all these wonderful comments in the post like I have . Because you see i simply shared the coin in this post like anyone else who shares a coin  in a effort to try and gain some logical opinions but eventually I found out the the hard way that no one could actually tell me anything substantial about it since NO ONE has ever actually seen such a coin with this kind of SPECIAL FINISH  ... And that i guess created A GUESSING FRENZY WITH THINGS LIKE  MAGICAL THEORIES of ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE that leave dimes with a smooth even finish ... But hey its really no big deal because THE COIN WILL EVENTUALLY BE AUTHENTICATED  

3 hours ago, Coinbuf said:

I just want to know when Quintus is going to propose to Richie, its a beautiful bromance.

Tisk risk ... Well now ... i do believe that i sense a little jealousy in the air somewhere Quintus . 😂

16 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Here is the way the claim of a discovery coin is treated, and it is treated this way because it is the only intellectually honest way to treat it:

As the French mathematician Pierre-Simon Laplace so eloquently  put it, "The weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness."

David Hume wrote in 1748: "A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence", and "No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavors to establish."

Marcello Truzzi says: "An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof."

 

In other words, @RichieRich2020, it does not fall upon anyone to disprove what you think you have. Because it is a purported "discovery coin", the ultimate in an "extraordinary claim" as applied to numismatics, it falls to you to prove that it is what you say it is. Annnnnd, the evidence you produce needs to be extraordinary. Enjoy the journey before you. I know I absolutely will.

I most certainly will enjoy that journey and as a matter of FACT the pleasure will be all mines ... 

5 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

For purposes of accuracy, there is no "7 million dollar coin" that experts said was fake. Yes, the coin was incorrectly said to be a copy, but that "7 million dollar" figure is off by millions of dollars.

Geesh well excuse the typo ...  LOL 😆 

21 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Well, I wouldn't go that far. As my, er, uh, sister once said (paraphrasing slightly) there is nothing wrong with the OP.  He is what he represents himself to be and how we choose to perceive him. The real problem is US, the collector community, which repeatedly engages a subject that quite evidently is unwilling or unable to yield to mob pressure. After all, with the touch of a thumb or click of a mouse, the problem takes care of itself very nicely. The only spectators who come out ahead are Alex B or Mr. Hinkle who tune in strictly for the entertainment value. 

Very well said because I do wish that some of these guys who love to comment strictly for the purpose of entertainment would just find another post to troll ... infact i can actually take the EXPERT GUESSING and even all these WEIRD SCIENCE COIN THEORIES.  But not anymore of these weak insults because i think theyve started to make me get very sleepy when I hear them ... 😴😴😴

23 minutes ago, Morpheus1967 said:

You know, if you would have just submitted the coin back when you started this thread, it might have already been on it's way back to you.  Bu we all know you won't submit it, even if you say you will.  I wish you actually realized who some of the folks are that you are arguing with lol.  The fact that you don't tells us all quite a bit about your numismatic experience.  

Well no actually your wrong and it actually doesn't ...  because what  it should actually be telling you is ... is that I like to actually do my research rather then just believing anything I'm told to believe because of who that person is .... because sometimes you can find out years later that it wasn't what you were actually told at all like with the 1943 copper cent and the 7million dollar coin that EXPERTS TOLD THEM WAS FAKE 

13 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

This OP is hopeless, and, and, and pointless and worthless too.

Well now those are some very strong and offensive words . But I learned a very long time ago that the only kind of people who would call other people worthless are the ones who probably know that they are worthless themselves ... 

1 hour ago, Morpheus1967 said:

You do realize even the smallest amount of indirect heat will melt wax, right?  

Sure and you do realize that there should still be some traces of it somewhere inbetween the grooves on the edges of the coin right ? 

2 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

It must be wonderful to know more than everyone else. And to be able to dismiss all explanations that you don't want to believe, while holding on to your own, no matter how unlikely it is. 

There's no way that the coin should ever be submitted to a grading company for authentication. Because they either don't know their stuff or would be involved in a conspiracy with the rest of the numismatic world to treat the submitter unfairly.

Yes, the best thing to do is just keep the unique, priceless coin, as is, and enjoy it forever. 

 

Why actually Markfeld i am certainly Looking forward to hearing anything else besides  weird science theories and expert guessing . And im also very sad to hear that you feel I don't want to believe anything or might think i know more then anyone else . Because I really don't think I do .  But what I do know is what I was told by the coin dealer . And so you might want to go back read a little more of the previoys comments i shared ... Especially the part that specifically says:  The MATTE FINISH YOUR SEEING by Fred Weinberg because it might help take the edge off a little ... 😉 

22 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Actually, much worse.  He was told what he was holding in his hand, didn't exist!  In bureaucrat-speak, of course.

Wow ... Well i guess i shouldn't be too surprised at this point . And I can imagine how he was probably feeling after giving up hope only to be told YEARS later that he had discovered that rare diamond . 

13 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Miracles do happen, a fact worth acknowledging. I keep thinking about that kid who received a letter from a government official stating no 1943 copper pennies were made. Good thing he put it in a drawer at home.  He was vindicated years later.  Too bad he didn't live long enough to enjoy the fruits of his discovery.

I agree and great point ... im sure he was probably told it was nothing special or maybe even environmental damage with a smooth finish  . Lol

I hope this article could hopefully say it best and give nonbelievers a chance to be more open minded and pay more close attention to little details . Even Experts ...  

43 minutes ago, Conder101 said:

Or just put a layer of wax on the edge before you give it the acid treatment.  Then a little bit of very hot water to remove the wax and you're done, etched faces with a pristine edge.

Another way to do it might be with a laser.  We already know they use a laser to make the matte frosted devices on proof dies, but you could also just do the entire face of the coin.  The laser is perpendicular to the face of the coin so it will never touch the edge.

And of course as mentioned earlier sand or bead blasting.  The blaster is also perpendicular to the face so it will not touch the edges either.

Again great ideas guys ... And if anyone actually tries any of these ideas and they work  . Then please let me know because i would truly LOVE to actually see how these creative experiments turned out with the coins finish and edges 

51 minutes ago, Conder101 said:

Or just put a layer of wax on the edge before you give it the acid treatment.  Then a little bit of very hot water to remove the wax and you're done, etched faces with a pristine edge.

Another way to do it might be with a laser.  We already know they use a laser to make the matte frosted devices on proof dies, but you could also just do the entire face of the coin.  The laser is perpendicular to the face of the coin so it will never touch the edge.

And of course as mentioned earlier sand or bead blasting.  The blaster is also perpendicular to the face so it will not touch the edges either.

Well that sounds like great idea . However the only problem with that idea is ... if you tried putting a layer of wax around the edges of the coin before sandblasting it then I'm pretty sure that there would have to be some traces of the wax somewhere inbetween the grooves of the coin and since there isn't any then unfortunately it can't be the wax experiment theory ... but either way it still was a nice idea . And I'm also sure that anyone who loves experimenting on coins would probably love to try it themselves .... infact it sounds like a simple enough thing to try so maybe you should trying it and let us all know how it really turned out . Because I'm dying to know if any of the creative ideas that people have shared would look anything remotely close to the actual finish on the coin in the post .... Yes that would certainly be a excellent treat indeed   . 😉 

1 hour ago, Quintus Arrius said:

As a certified admirer of RichieRich2020, I am prepared to make him a very attractive offer for the coin, which evidently skewed the orbit of the earth more so than the last cataclysmic, wide-ranging tsunami (2004) get this now, sight unseen AND prior to submission and authentication.

I can do this because apparently, with the exception of a few hold-outs, you guys just don't get it. You do not understand RichieRich2020. And I, destined to win by 37 lengths, do. Ha! Ha! Ha!

Well I truly appreciate the gracious offer and compliment ... especially since I believe that someone else in the beginning of the thread also made a handsome offer to pay $10,000 for it if the coin should come back as anything other then the wide list of opinions here ... And don't ask me how i know it but im pretty sure that it will . But either way if you would like to make an offer like you said then im all ears . But please keep in mind that I have to stand firm on the fact that I believe it is A ONE OF KIND which means no other collector has one in their collection.  And which is why im also sure that no one in the entire post has bothered to share a single coin along with all the creative comments to dispute the coins actual finish ... 😉 

Good one ... the body bag jab was very witty . And maybe so . But if not , then what ...  Would you be making A REAL OFFER for a one of kind special finish coin to show everyone what a real collector and good sport you are and would you eat your words like a man . Now that is the real question ?  

1 hour ago, bsshog40 said:

Man, the cointalk thread had 105 responses. Mostly the same as here. This thread has beaten his old record of arguing about a non-existent special finish by over 30 responses and still going! 

Well I'm starting to believe that someone has a secret crush on old RichieRich2020... Because i couldn't help but notice how in some of your comments youve been focusing on my old post rather then focusing on the actual coin in the discussion . Which if you ask me is a little bit stalkerish  ...  

6 minutes ago, Big Nub numismatics said:

However annoying, his use of capitalized words are impeccable. I could hear him pounding his keyboard and angrily typing all the way over hear. I wonder if he has better things to do than try to persuade others into his numismatic cult of worshipping the false matte dime. 

So whether you like it or not unfortunately IT IS NOT environmental damage as alot of collectors have tried to suggest ... and it don't take a rocket scientist or even an coin expert to see that . And whether it is a matte finish or not i for one am not the going to bothered by it because it is still A ONE OF A KIND FIND with a very unique finish that no other Roosevelt dime has so please just GET OVER IT AND TROLL ON or please offer some PROOF OF A COIN LIKE IT to support your theory ... to show EVERYONE just how wrong the OP is . LOL

1 hour ago, Quintus Arrius said:

[Allow me to preface my "flowery soapbox" style speech by offering a plausible reply to the poster who denounced me as a specially-designated Troll (yes, with a Capital T) and pointedly threw into my face the charge, framed as an accusation, that I had promised to take leave of this now legendary free-for-all:  I LIED! Simple as that.]

Now, where were we?... Oh yeah, RichieRich2020. For sheer staying power -- an intermittent post spread over five remarkable pages! -- you are the undisputed champ!!! I don't even remember what we were talking about. It's not even important because the default, go-to conclusion is problematic at best: submit it for autopsy, with a big WHAT IF looming.  I don't know that it is possible to grade a coin virtually. I suspect even Fifth or Sixth Party Graders, with no axe to grind, would insist on a personal, physical consultation. That being said, and having exhausted the patience of onlookers (eager to go on to the next wildebeest mugging) I respectfully suggest you solicit an expert, if not professional, opinion again after waiting a decent interval for the air to clear.  You will always be tops in my book and, talking about books, the Richie Rich comic books I enjoyed in my youth (circa late1950s/1960s) were terrific, especially the collaboration with Casper the Ghost!

Well just to elaborate a little on the TROLL comment . I couldn't help but notice that alot of the other coin collectors in this group seem to really enjoy calling intelligent people who are smart enough to ask questions and point out things that quite DONT ADD UP ... TROLLS . And so i was actually referring to only those individuals who like to lowkey use the TROLL insult just be honest . But i do really appreciate your logical thought  process in the matter because its very clear that alot of the other professional coin collectors seem to have a very unique way with throwing absolutely anything out there especially if their UNSUPPORTED OPINIONS is ever disagreed with or challenged  ... 

Well despite all these COMICAL comments I will again stand firm and say that what I SEE AND KNOW is that environmental damage does not cause a dime to ever have A PERFECTLY EVEN MATTE FINISH ON BOTH SIDES OF A COIN  . Its that simple .... And its almost impossible if not impossible altogether to simply sandblast or acid dip any coins without affecting the COPPER and CLAD EDGES as also demonstrated in the photos which im sure that alot of the TROLLS here can see and yet repeatedly attempt to suggest without providing ONE EXAMPLE of other coins to show how likely that really is ... 

Oh and one more very important FACT ... having rounded and worn edges on a coin from 1993 should be VERY self explanatory for any coin collector or expert . However if i need to try and explain how rounded and worn edges can occur over time then i can certainly try if that would help as I am no expert ... although something in my gut is already telling me that you probably are already FULLY AWARE of this despite what your suggesting .... just like saying that the grooves on the edges of the coin now somehow magically has the same Frosted finish as the rest of the coin despite all the photos showing that its doesn't which leads me to believe that what YOU'RE SAYING is either in your IMAGINATION or that your computer screen really needs to be cleaned because it is being affected by a rare form of fairy 🧚‍♀️ dust ....

1 hour ago, VKurtB said:

I can, but I'm just puzzled why you say the edges on yours aren't affected. What would you expect to see that's different from what you have? I believe yours are affected, 

Well you should be able to clearly see that copper and clad composition on the edges and inbetween the grooves of the coin is not the same as the Frosted finish on the rest of the coin in the photos ... And I was also guessing that anyone who has the ability and equipment to do experiments on coins could show how easy it is to create a frosted matte finish on a coin without affecting the edges 

21 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

I don't think you're likely to. I experiment on dirt cheap world coins acquired at coin club auctions in plastic bags. I sort them by metal and pitch them into jars for later experiments. A lot of countries use our Cu/Ni 75/25 alloy. The neat thing about aluminum/brass coins (like pre-euro modern French low denomination stuff) is the WILD colors I can get on those coins. Here's the best advice I've got: Don't. Buy. For. Color. Like, ever.

So this is just a side question... But do you think you could you possibly test a clad dime with the same theories that were mentioned all throughout the thread just to show everyone how a matte finish dime can be created without affecting its edges .... Because i think that it would be a wonderful experiment and excellent lesson 🤔 

1 hour ago, bsshog40 said:

And so how do we explain to other coin collectors in the group that the coin does not have any scruff markings as demonstrated in the photos bsshog40 .... because I suppose that the Dremel tool you so happily posted to prove me wrong would magically erase those as well ...  😂😂😂