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Purchased for $20? When? The last time gold was $80/oz was 1973.

Improper annealing was also blamed for poor die life and "defective appearance of the coin" in New Orleans in early 1900. https://archive.org/details/rg104entry229box109/page/n95/mode/2up

I am intrigued by the "octagonal hole with inside rim". How the heck did they do an inside rim?

I love watching the heavy hitters discuss something. It's a privilege on here.

I have often thought that there needs to be more science in numismatics.

Here's a 2015 $50 that sold for $9600 in January 2020. I don't know how much these $50 bullion coins normally sell for. https://coins.ha.com/itm/errors/2015-50-one-ounce-gold-eagle-obverse-indented-by-retained-plastic-fragment-first-strike-ms69-pcgs/a/1311-5070.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515 I wonder if you can get a "first strike" designation? From what I posted above, this was literally the first strike from that die.

I think they call this a retained struck-through, but now it's not "retained", so... I would be very careful with the black piece so it stays intact. Did it just fall off the coin or did you have to encourage it out? I think I've seen these somewhere with the piece struck-through encapsulated along with the coin. I'd say it's fairly unusual for a piece this large to stay with the coin, and it will definitely command a premium for the right collector, if that's what this is. Edit: OK, maybe it's not that uncommon. https://www.sullivannumismatics.com/information/articles/strike-through-error-coins. Scroll down to "struck through plastic". "This error type is mostly found on bullion, and to a lesser degree on other modern mint products. Struck through plastic coins have a shiny, thin, even strike through which usually has a few straight lines and then is ragged elsewhere around the perimeter of the strike through. We know these coins are struck through fragments of plastic because many coins have been found with the plastic still retained in the strike through. The plastic comes from a covering which is used to protect the dies, and is removed prior to the die’s being put into service to strike coins. Sometimes not all the plastic is removed, resulting in a strike through. In the silver eagle show above, the coin strike through is very shiny (almost like the mirrored fields of a proof coin), and it is a classic example of a struck through plastic."

Yeah, it's starting to sound like we're preserving the option to go the shady route and not leave any tracks. Or not burn bridges with a TPG that loves to burn bridges (I'm starting to guess which one graded them genuine). I wonder how the Hobby Protection Act might play into this, as far as the "knows or should have known" clause and the 10k value. Which is why I said previously, as the middleman, to maybe ask your attorney. I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole, but I'm not in the business.

I wouldn't recommend trying it, but I wonder, if it's really solder, if a pro could melt it off. Gold melting point is 1064C and solder seems to be 90-450C. It's always going to be a damaged coin though.

I would post it on CCF. A lot of 1859 collectors hang out there. Someone might come along on here but it could take a while. I think you'd need an XRF analysis of the composition because the weight varied widely on these and the color could be deceiving.

Post better images of both sides, outside of the capsule if it's easy to open. I don't have experience with these either but I think it's counterfeit. This is a $1000+ coin even in VF and the date and letters look wrong. I wouldn't worry about doubling in the date until we can figure out if it's real.

Glad someone else feels that way. I scrolled down and went "yikes!". The "Marshall Islands" made all kinds of this gimmick commemorative stuff using private mints. There's 22 pages of it on Numista. Your coin isn't British. They're all made by private mints, so I can imagine they have their own problems with quality. Yours is this one https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces93952.html

Another sandblasting technique. The panel in the upper right is believed to be about 11,000 years old. I was there this morning, after I spent my special matte finish dime on a smoothie.

I was in the mine they had at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago as a kid. It wasn’t real though, and I knew the difference. Even as a little kid I could tell when something was real or not.

Conversely, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a current year P coin in change where I live, 60 miles from Denver mint.

No coin shortage at the liquor store today. The hag in front of me was paying for her bottle of vodka in quarters, dimes, nickels, and cents. Slowly. She came up about 25 cents short and had to start over.

I think of it as "numismatic psychosis". I'm not going to write up a thesis on it, but we see many people exhibiting similar behavior. (I said this thread was no longer worth bothering with, yet here I am. Maybe I have it too).

https://www.maddieclashes.com/denominational-overlays/ Not sure if I see anything but could be from the eagle's wing I guess, check the overlays on the website above.

Take it out of the 2x2?

If the "P people" called them legit and they aren't, and you posted it over there, it would be gone before you could hit refresh. gmarguli poses an ethical dilemma but without knowing the players or even what coins, it's difficult. Moxie15 causes me to rethink. Is the difference between 65 and 67 really the same as fake versus real though? As a "consignor" whose role is "to slab and sell". what is your obligation to your customer? At $10k value, I'd probably talk to an attorney. Doesn't seem like the "guarantee" would cover you as the middleman in a transaction where you knew another TPG called them counterfeits.

gmarguli linked the discussion on the other forum on the very first page of this one. The jig was up early on. You act like that on forums, you get treated like that. I'm not sure all your word salad was worth it over somebody's sandblasted or Dremeled coin, but it's been fun.

It has already mutated but I'd nuke it anyway, just to be safe.

I use Numismedia, check auction results here and that other place, check Heritage, Great Collections and occasionally Stacks. If a price is abnormally high or low, I’ll check the coin images and description to see why. I don’t trust eBay as much but I’ll check there too.

If you're keeping the coins, you can always go back through them at your leisure. I've found cool stuff under a microscope on coins I've had for 40 years. If you're looking to sell them all, you'll have to weigh the value of your time and effort. To me it seems like getting a new attribution and maybe a "discovery coin" designation is a long, time-consuming process, then it has to be published somewhere to get noticed.

Seems to contradict another source (https://www.doubleddie.com/58201.html) - "A major turning point for hub and die production in the U.S. Mints came in the summer of 1996 when the Denver Mint opened its own die making shop". Otherwise this thread is no longer worth bothering with I think...