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Alex in PA.

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  1. Like
    Alex in PA. reacted to GoldFinger1969 in Roger Burdette's Saint Gaudens Double Eagles Book   
    It could.....you may have to figure that some of the coins are only worth bullion value.  Now, I would think these early-1900's coins are worth numimsatic premiums, but maybe not.
    For sure, a few thousand more coins (if not more) with an added $3,000/oz. floor would change the economics.  I think the problem here is not the value of the coins on a bullion or numismatic basis, but exactly how many there are on the ship and where on the ship are they.
  2. Like
    Alex in PA. reacted to RWB in Roger Burdette's Saint Gaudens Double Eagles Book   
    From the New York Tribune, January 25, 1909, page 2:
    When Captain Ransom saw that the Republic could be towed the captain and crew of the latter were placed aboard again. The Baltic headed for New York about noon. Some delay was caused in the departure of the Baltic from the side of the Republic by the drifting of the latter during the night. Influenced by the current of the Gulf Stream and carried along by a light wind, the half sunken boat had traveled a distance of some sixteen miles.
    The Republic Goes Down.
    After the departure of the Ba!tlc the large revenue cutters Gresham and Seneca,  which had arrived at the scene in the mean time, affixed hawsers to the Republic and started on a long tow to New York. The steamer dragged heavily and the speed was very slow. About eighty miles had been completed when the Republic began to settle, and finally she went down.
    [Crew and Captain had been transferred to the Gresham before Republic sank.]
  3. Thanks
    Alex in PA. got a reaction from Hoghead515 in Post your most recent acquisition: US   
    @Hoghead515 I'm sure it will be a great looking set when you finish.  I can't wait to see your end result.  
  4. Like
    Alex in PA. reacted to GoldFinger1969 in Roger Burdette's Saint Gaudens Double Eagles Book   
    It's why JA and others say there won't be any more salvage on the SSCA.  There are coins there for sure -- but not enough to justify a complete operation with all the equipment.
    Maybe a billionaire coin collector who doesn't mind losing millions would bring them up, I don't know.
  5. Like
    Alex in PA. got a reaction from GoldFinger1969 in Roger Burdette's Saint Gaudens Double Eagles Book   
    That may be it.  A fellow would have the duty of proving to the 'Backers' that there was treasure and it's worth the cost of recovery.  You make some very interesting points.
  6. Like
    Alex in PA. reacted to RWB in Roger Burdette's Saint Gaudens Double Eagles Book   
    Normal packaging of gold coins for export was to place 7 bags separated by sawdust packing into a small keg. These were secured in a safe location on the ship. Some reports for other exports state the kegs were in a vault 2 levels below, and directly under the Captain’s quarters, with access only through that suite.
    The Republic sailed from Baltimore on January 5 for New York, and from New York City on Friday January 22, 1909 at 3pm (mail and cargo closed at 12:30pm) bound for Gibraltar and Genoa. It was struck amidship by the steamer Florida the evening of January 23 off Nantucket, and sank on the 24th.
    Here are the deliveries of double eagles at the Philadelphia Mint for January 1909. Any 1909-date coins had to move from Philadelphia Mint Cashier to the New York Assay Office, then to a packing facility and finally to the docked ship. This might have consumed 4 or 5 days.

    As shown by the Coiner's notebook excerpt, total double eagle coinage for January was $1,930,400. However, from January 13 through 15 coinage was only $981,900 - far short of the "$3,000,000 1909 DE" claimed by some. Further, even if the delivery on Jan. 19 were included (unlikely given the Republic's sailing on the 22nd) the total would have been only $1,110,400 in 1909-date double eagles.
    Thus, if the ship carried this $3 million in DE, the coins had to be all or 2/3rds earlier dates.
  7. Like
    Alex in PA. reacted to GoldFinger1969 in Roger Burdette's Saint Gaudens Double Eagles Book   
    Yes, the numbers seem to be somewhat in flux here.  That's why this thing has taken 35 years and the coins are still in the ocean whereas with the SSCA they managed to get them within 10-15 years or so.
    They need CERTAINTY that a given number of Double Eagles -- of whatever date -- were on that ship.  If they assume....and then there's 1/10th or 1/20th that number -- they're screwed.
    Now, they can afford a haircut from their estimate of 45 tons of gold (I think SSCA had 15 tons) and still have a good amount of DEs worth saving.  We'll see.....
     
  8. Like
    Alex in PA. reacted to GoldFinger1969 in Roger Burdette's Saint Gaudens Double Eagles Book   
    The Russian Government apparently floated a $25 MM bond in New York shortly before this ship sailed.  And that bond helped collateralize the shipment (loan) of the gold/DEs that were on the ship.
    But a bond floated on the NYSE isn't proof that the DEs in the quantity estimated were on the ship.
     
  9. Like
    Alex in PA. reacted to RWB in Roger Burdette's Saint Gaudens Double Eagles Book   
    The "Russian Loan" of $290 million did not close until Jan 22.
  10. Like
    Alex in PA. reacted to RWB in Roger Burdette's Saint Gaudens Double Eagles Book   
    I have not found that mentioned in newspapers -- but there are a lot of papers. Banks would not have secured and released gold coin until after a loan had been approved.
  11. Like
    Alex in PA. reacted to GoldFinger1969 in Roger Burdette's Saint Gaudens Double Eagles Book   
    "The second, a much more intriguing $25 million shipment comprised of double-eagles, mint-state twenty-dollar gold pieces, 45 tons of gold coins, the proceeds from Tsarist Russia’s sale of its January 22, 1909 Bonds on Wall Street."
    https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/541914226/lords-of-fortune-llc-to-recover-famous-treasure-aboard-shipwreck-rms-republic-lost-in-1909
    Not sure what is 100% fact and what is conjecture, admittedly. 
  12. Like
    Alex in PA. reacted to RWB in Roger Burdette's Saint Gaudens Double Eagles Book   
    The Republic sailed on the 22nd with mail and cargo closing at 12:30pm.  The Russian loan closed on the 22nd and the US portion was not identified on that date. A large sum of gold could not have been prepared and loaded in that time frame. Further, gold shipments were normally in bars of which the NYAO was the prime source and Philadelphia Mint bullion the secondary.
    I suspect a great deal of conjecture which is why this "huge treasure" sill sits off Nantucket on the continental shelf.
     
  13. Like
    Alex in PA. reacted to GoldFinger1969 in Roger Burdette's Saint Gaudens Double Eagles Book   
    I don't know how salvage costs have gone up/down since 1990 or so (when they might have first tried to get the coins) but the price of gold is about 4x higher so that's a plus.
    If only bullion -- no premium, probably a worst-case scenario -- 150,000 coins would be about $60 MM 35 years ago.  Today, it's closer to $275 MM.
  14. Like
    Alex in PA. reacted to GoldFinger1969 in Roger Burdette's Saint Gaudens Double Eagles Book   
    It could...if the coins haven't spilled out, and they were definitely there, then they are somewhere on a 500-foot ship.  There could be dozens of places the coins were moved......could have been taken to an alternate holding area.
    150,000 coins is about 600 bags (250 count) or 300 bags (500 count).  Not sure there are bigger bags.  But if you can find the entire stash it makes things easier.  And if the bags got shifted around, it adds to the cost/complexity.  If the bags OPENED and the coins went all over the place, then the cost/complexity goes up exponentially.
  15. Like
    Alex in PA. got a reaction from VKurtB in I Need some Educating please   
    They keep coming.
  16. Like
    Alex in PA. reacted to Hoghead515 in Post your most recent acquisition: US   
    Thank you my good friend. I am very happy to add it to my set Im putting together. 
  17. Like
    Alex in PA. reacted to Mr.Bill347 in “What in the Wide, Wide World of Sports Is a-Goin’ on Here?   
    Slick; I feel that you do have some redeeming qualities. You just need to simply start over, begin fresh, offer legitimate questions with clear cropped pictures of coins and the pros here (certainly not me), will provide you with knowledgeable, informative answers. When you inject your opinions, and quote others whom you do not know, you step in you own xxit. I’m not saying beg for forgiveness, but try to change your tone a little. Welcome to the forum.

  18. Like
    Alex in PA. reacted to Morpheus1967 in I Need some Educating please   
    WTF is wrong with driving a Kia?  I love my K5.  
  19. Like
    Alex in PA. reacted to VKurtB in I Need some Educating please   
    What it means is that the numismatic hobby has been plagued by folks hawking minor errors and varieties since at least the 1960’s. They are not worth collecting and never have been. Singled out for particular disdain have been die cracks. 
  20. Like
    Alex in PA. got a reaction from Simmoleon in Post your most recent acquisition: US   
    That 78 S is a dandy.  San Fran minted some good looking coins 1878 to 1890.  Hey Hog - IMO that 54 Half should have got more than 65.  Very nice toning.
  21. Haha
    Alex in PA. got a reaction from James Zyskowski in I Need some Educating please   
    They keep coming.
  22. Like
    Alex in PA. got a reaction from AcesKings in Follow the lead picture post.   
    That 1934 Half is beyond words.  Stunning doesn't begin to accurately describe it.  The 37 too.
  23. Like
    Alex in PA. got a reaction from GoldFinger1969 in Roger Burdette's Saint Gaudens Double Eagles Book   
    I read that but......that can't be all that's holding up the show.  
  24. Like
    Alex in PA. got a reaction from Henri Charriere in Post your most recent acquisition: US   
    That 78 S is a dandy.  San Fran minted some good looking coins 1878 to 1890.  Hey Hog - IMO that 54 Half should have got more than 65.  Very nice toning.
  25. Like
    Alex in PA. got a reaction from AdamWL in Post your most recent acquisition: US   
    That 78 S is a dandy.  San Fran minted some good looking coins 1878 to 1890.  Hey Hog - IMO that 54 Half should have got more than 65.  Very nice toning.