RAJ on COINS

Thanks Roger! It was a pleasure to showcase your book and it's potential impact on Saints collecting!

Re: Roger's Book. My talk on Saint Gaudens die varieties given Aug 30th for the NNP Symposium is now posted on their website: https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/588179 Hoping Roger's book flies off the shelves at heritage!

Yeah, What's up with that?!!!

Saint Gauden's hands down. The full frontal liberty is the more daring approach and that it was successfully pulled off is amazing. Also, the eagles on the reverses?...no contest! The flying eagle vs. the one wearing "cowboy chaps"? Have to admit that the Weinman coin obverse is beautiful, especially with the flag as dreapery... but there can only be one best!

I hear you, and agree the process can be very frustrating. Though it is true people like Double Eagles, when it comes to varieties it can be a very different story. I've gotten quite used to that "deer in the headlights" look when I bring it up. Incidentally, I too have working with Bill Fivaz on the new Cherrypicker's guide, and I believe I have had some success (based on public comments made at ANA in Atlanta), but my last few emails trying to get a finalized list of what will be added have gone unanswered. Could just be that they are hunkered down or backed up from COVID. Have you considered doing a video? Youtube is a great outlet for short limited coin themed videos. Just keep doing what you're doing here. Don't give up! Telling others about it half the fun. One more suggestion. Write up an article (keeping it to 500 words), maybe about the frustrations you've described or some other aspect of the process and your progress. Make your points clearly and entertainingly (if possible), and submit it to Bill Gibbs as a "Guest Commentary" to Coin World. He's printed quite a few of mine, and I think new voices in that space always have a good shot at publication. Even if it doesn't advance your specific agenda, it may open up some channels for further discussion. A more serious article that gets "into the weeds" of your topic you can send to club journals. They are always looking for things to print.

Check this out: http://numismaticcrimes.org/

OK, apparently the NGC "syntax police" thought me calling myself an i d i o t was inappropriate, replacing it with "insufficiently thoughtful person", totally ruining my punchline!

I hear you but that was not my experience. The coin in my case was a Saint Gauden's Double Eagle variety, for which there is next to no real collector demand to this point (I may be the only insufficiently_thoughtful_person interested in these). As to talking somebody into it, I agree the found variety does have to reach some threshold of visual interest, and that is subjective on the part of different people. If you found the 101st new re-punched mint mark, it may be an uphill climb. Agree somewhat that knowledge can grow slowly in the hobby and mistakes that make it into published resources may take some time to be corrected. Also agree that there are "gate-keepers" who may resist unsolicited appeals, but not all are dead horses. Don't beat them...try to convince them. My sense of the VarietyPlus listings are that NGC wants to be a key resource for collectors interested in varieties and If you have found something interesting they will not unfairly resist. Contrast that with PCGS who is way more restrictive about which varieties they will attribute on their slabs. I tried to have a Breen variety (he's been dead 30 years) acknowledged on a slab, they implied they would consider it, and then took my money and wouldn't do it. I suspect I would have gotten a different result if I were a dealer. All I am saying is don't write off NGC. Go to a show and talk to Dave Lange. He will tell you why or why not things get listed. He is respected in the hobby, and from my perspective, deserves that respect. Be courteous, not aggressive. Ask questions, don't make demands, and I'm sure you'll get better results.

Not True. David Lange is the decision maker on new varieties for NGC. You can usually find him at NGC's booth at coin shows. I was successful, after showing him sufficient evidence*, in having a Variety I discovered added to the VarietiesPlus list, and getting the variety slabbed as the "Discovery Coin" *Variety characteristics have to be seen on more than one coin to be considered a bonafide die variety. If you think you have found one, search auction archives (like Heritages) of the same date/mint as your subject coin and try and locate another example with the same oddity. Also search inventories at coin shows. You just have to do the work providing indisputable objective evidence.

Makes perfect sense. Were the collar dies on the eagle coin also changed in 1912? Might there be some 46 star 1912's out there?

I'm sure most don't. In any case, I wouldn't want a shop in this current social climate anywhere, what with the police on the defensive and potential thieves emboldened. Wonder what if any steps Stacks took in New York? I think they are on 46th street not far from Madison Avenue, which got trashed. If it were me, I might be inclined to hustle the inventory to Dave Bower's house in Wolfeboro, New Hampshire!

Thanks for that. We know beginning in 1912, two stars were added for Arizona and New Mexico, bringing the total to 48. Again, I assume sufficient "heads-up" was given such that there were no 1912 dies made with 46 stars (or no 1911 ones made with 48). Your book mentions a new master die for 1912. Was that to facilitate adding the stars? Was the process: existing Master hub makes new master die... two additional stars are then "punched" into the oak leaf area to bring the total to 48? In writing your book, did you ever consider referring to the series by sub-types? Seems logical the '07 high reliefs might be Type I, 1907-08 low relief "No Motto's" Type II, 1908-1911 "46 stars with Motto" Type III, and 1912-1933 "48 star" Type IV. (I ignored the short and long rays as a "modified" design element, rather than elements that either are there or they are not.)

insert "so every coin struck by that die exhibits the variety..."

An he truly is entertaining. It drives me nuts that people are suckered in to buying coins this way, because they are destined to become bitter about the hobby when they realize they have overpaid. As to Mr. Mezack and his TV ilk, I am fascinated at how they manage to spin actual facts to create an impression that what they are selling are bargains. Very slick. Many coins can have an interesting history, beautiful appearance, a Mint State grade, and decades of age, yet still be common as dirt and basically be worth the metal they are made from. And of course, don't let a fancy slab fool you! How rare the slab is is totally irrelevant to most of us. A common coin worth "X" in a rare slab is still a common coin (worth "X"). "Mike Mesack will give you advice,..." "...selling coins on TV that look nice." "They look shiny and new..." " ...and he sells quite a few..." "...It's too bad they're worth less than half price." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Better to remember: "Buy the coin... not the slab" and "Buy the Book before the coin."

An error is different than a Variety. An error is generally unique...specific to a single example of a coin, and happens at the time of striking. Variety is short for "Die Variety" and as the name implies, is struck from a die with unique characteristics...so every coin struck by that coin exhibits the variety. Documentation on varieties is easier to find as multiple examples exist. Errors, being unique coins, are usually discussed in references in general terms, most often by the type of error. A "struck through" error is a coin where some material or substance, often grease, cloth, a nail, or some other stray item comes between the die and planchet at the moment of striking. There isn't much more to say about a specific example other than determining what the intervening material was. The more unusual probably the better.

That's why I'd never be a dealer... Bad enough potentially to carry a few valuable coins on your person at shows then to travel with an entire inventory. Ditto for coin shops. I wonder if any were looted this past week?

Roger. Something that always puzzled me. Oklahoma became a state on November 16, 1907, which was 3 months after Saint Gaudens died. Therefore, during the entire time of his direct involvement with the design, the United States was comprised of 45 states. All of the coins, and even his plaster model from December 1906 (in your book) show 46 stars on the obverse. Do you think that was because the admission of Oklahoma was considered a "done deal" years prior to admission?

Good point! You may get more in if "social distancing" spreads things out in 2021.

For FUN in Orlando, I stay at the Courtyard by Marriott Orlando International Drive/Convention Center. Longer walk to the Convention Center, shorter walk to Starbucks, Helps me get my "steps" in!

I do know in his advertising he calls himself "America's Gold Expert"... sounds a bit pompous to me. Check this out: https://www.mikefuljenz.com/

Here's an interesting tid-bit from recent news: "...Recent large-quantity melting of vintage U.S. $10 and $20 denomination gold coins struck in the late 19th and early 20th centuries created a shortage in supply and premiums are rising due to higher demand." Comes from an article authored by Mike Fuljenz.: https://coinweek.com/bullion-report/fundamentals-for-gold-still-strong-good-for-rare-coins/ I'm aware of this guy. I've seen him at Mint forums a couple of times and at shows. He has authored some books and I think he has a decent reputation in the hobby. I wonder where he got that information? Sounds like telemarketing style hype to me. Would love to know who is melting vintage coins and why!

Here's a better rendition (with a nice picture of Julian).... https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/driven-by-gold-and-silver-prices-thieves-target-coin-collections/2012/06/10/gJQAouh5SV_story.html

God I'm just full of misinformation! I was told the insurance scam story by a dealer from the Parsippany (NJ) Coin Show (I should have known better). This much is true. A dealer stopped to eat at at the Tiffany diner (used to go there with my Mom years ago) in Montville, NJ (where I lived for 31 years), and while eating, coins were stolen from his van. I just looked it up on the internet. Here is the link: https://www.nj.com/news/local/2010/12/montville_coin_theft_case_invo.html It was a real theft, and the dealer was Julian Leidman (Bonanza Coins of Silver Spring Maryland). Had I known Julian was the dealer, I would have realized the scam story was false on the face of it. Julian is an honest, top flight dealer who I know and have purchased coins from on a few occasions (yes, even one of my SG varieties in fact!). He is a staple at the Whitman Baltimore shows, as he lives not too far away. Thanks for having me check GF!

That is true, but there was a case like that at a diner in NJ a few years ago that I heard ultimately turned out to be a dealer scam (trying to collect insurance - no theft). Going to shows definitely does merit some vigilance. GF: Let me know next year at FUN when you've bought all the SG varieties and I will walk back to your hotel with you (if I don't mug you myself!)

Your comment made me wonder, as I thought it was light out when the coin show bourse closed each day at 5 pm in Orlando. I checked online and found the following: For the first two weeks in January, although sunrise in both New York City and Orlando occurs at roughly the same time (around 7:20 am), sunset is actually an hour later in Florida, at around 5:40 pm. In other words, there is approximately an additional hour of daylight in Florida compared with New York. That makes sense when you consider that day and night are equal at the equator all year long (12 hours each) so whatever the offset is in New York, it should be less in Florida, which is further south, closer to the equator.