zadok

On 4/14/2021 at 11:09 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

There was an expression a member once used, "the grades are all over the place," and that seems to be the case here. "Rocket Man" has an MS-66 I am familiar with and I can't see why this would not rate likewise, but one member evidently sees some wear. Yet another sees evidence suggesting use of an abraded die. (But I have seen a coin graded VF which earned a CAC). I am going to go with MS-65+. (unless the + may not be applied to the obverse and any such sign precludes CAC consideration). Regardless, Hoghead, you've done very well!

fyi.....even though bit off thread...cac stickers coins in all grades, from po-01 to pf-70 not just mint state.....

6 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Nope, you got that part wrong. It is a bison!  I thought everyone knew that.

he meant male bison......

22 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Zad, if the lettering can be read when the Obverse is face-up.....they are calling that Inverted Edge Lettering.  To me, it's NOT "inverted" because it is NOT upside-down -- we can read it on the coin.

Normal Edge Lettering is when the Reverse is face-up...and then the letters "E Pluribus Unum" are upside down.

Since I/we don't read letters upside down, I don't understand why letters in their normal position are called "inverted" and upside-down they are called "normal."

Maybe it's in RoAC (which is at the top of my to-buy list) as Roger implied.  Must have something to do with the die striking or something, because I thought it was a simple answer and it seems more complicated.

not sure bout rwb's more recent books i dont own any....ron guth referenced his 2006 "deciphering the mystery of the mcmvii extremely high refief double eagles" never read that either, my comments were from subsequent article written by guth in the pcgs.com archives....saint $20s not my area of interest, i prefer his $10s n the liberty series of gold....good luck...

36 minutes ago, RWB said:

Go to the original materials.

I did not present the information in the form stated above. An author is responsible only for their direct comments - not someone's rewording or conflation.

it wasnt a quote just a summation, not really interested in that series enuf to pursue it, minor issue anyway.....just trying help GF to understand orientation better, he can follow-up with u if its important to him......

20 minutes ago, RWB said:

This is explained in Renaissance of American Coinage 1905-1908.

Please check there before conflating internet gobble.

interesting since comments made above came from u in 2006 concerning the uhr edge lettering n reiterated by ron guth in articles he later published....who knew?

14 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

But the letters aren't inverted or upside down....they read normal when the obverse is on top.  

my very limited understanding of this issue ( im not a saint $20 fan n do little reading on them) is that the uhr 1907 was struck in 3 batches, first batch with collar from the 06 pattern, second n third batches with the revised collar, batch two was struck with the collar in one orientation n batch three with it in the opposite orientation, thus if u r looking at the coin from the top (obverse) down from one of the batches the edge lettering is normal n if from the other batch it would appear inverted, if ur perspective was to view the coins from the side (edge) the previous normal batch lettering would appear inverted n the previous inverted batch would be  normal.....hopefully not too confusing....as to which orientation is referred to as inverted letting by pcgs im not certain but is either batch two or three, perhaps rwb or some saint fan can clarify that issue.....

12 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I don't get the description of Inverted Edge Lettering for this and other coins.....the words read correct when the obverse is facing UP.....that should be Normal.....the letters are inverted when the Eagle on the Reverse is showing.

I would think the obverse takes priority not the reverse, so the Inverted would only be true if the lettering needed the reverse face-up to read it correctly.  Obverse face-up, the edge lettering can be read.  Reverse face-up, it can't.  Why call readable lettering inverted which implies upside-down and/or unreadable ?

Am I missing something ?

inverted lettering when u view it from the side with obverse on top....

6 minutes ago, Sharann said:

No doubt! That's what we got muscadines for... 

 

i guess u could mix grapes n berries n have a fruit/berry cocktail......

7 minutes ago, Sharann said:

Yes, yes, yes!! 

I'm your huckleberry... 😉

i wasnt aware there were any huckleberries in mississippi....

4 hours ago, Hoghead515 said:

I had a couple I like really well send me their business cards. I'm planning on getting all of them I can from them to complete my pre 64 Washington collection. I made a friend on here (Zadok) a promise I am gonna complete it. He didn't ask me to or anything, I just right out promised him. I usually keep my promises if I'm able. He's been very helpful to me and gave me some wonderful advice. His advice is why I decided on GWs. Helps me to complete a goal if I promise someone I will. That way it will keep me at it so I don't lie to them and let them down. And those 2 dealers have got some of the best prices I've seen on GWs. And nice looking ones also. I figured I can get a good chunk of them from those two. I just dread it when I gotta get my key dates. 

true to ur word....impressed, u jumped rite past that 200 barrier, on ur way to 100....

there r several companies that make plastic discs in mm sizes in diff colors, on ebay n etsy....easy to color code denominations n fill ur album holes, surfaces can be written on....inexpensive....

2 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

Agreed. While it’s possible that they paid to be able to grade the coin, publicizing the event certainly isn’t any sort of proof that they did so. For all we know, they charged a boat load to grade it.

if memory (questionable at times) serves me correctly, one or the other of the tpgs not so long ago offered to grade any 1894-S barber dime for free, just to document the existence of any of the unaccounted for ones......

57 minutes ago, Hoghead515 said:

Esty would be a a wonderful site for him. 

Here is an example of one of his post. This is me talking just to give you an example of what he does. Instead of posting 1 picture he would post several and most would be the same angle. Then he would post little videos of him holding it in the light. Here's the example:

SMS Satin matte special proof. Only 3 known(maybe more just an example)

" Look at the serif turning backward."

Picture

"Look at the satin finish dancing in the light" 

Video and 8 more pictures:

" Look at the die polishing marks around the 7" 

10 more of the same picture and 3 more videos : 

And so on and on. Every coin he posted was some kind of rare SMS coin with only few known examples. In reality they was just ordinary common coins. And he wouldn't listen to the experts on here. I'm no expert myself but I got enough sense to listen to these guys. Most of these guys write books and do this stuff for a living. Been collecting for years. They know what they are talking about. They do get one here and there that won't listen to them. And get mad when they shatter their dream of having a rare valuable coin. And Ratzie33 was one of them. Only every other coin he found was rare. He got to where people started ignoring his post. Poor guy wouldn't let no one help him. 

last i heard he got an american rescue plan federal grant, due to numismatic discrimination n abuse, n is starting his own tpg company, rumor has it will have its own private labels with unique coin descriptions n specialize in coins that were heretofore unknown to coin experts....who knew...

1 hour ago, RWB said:

Nope....read "very small" as "insignificant" for the stated purposes.

deflection.....typical

hypothetically, there was one scenario that suggested there could be 2-5 examples of the 1933 de that were never accounted for nor recovered....anything is possible even if not probable....if true any of those could be owned by a non-u.s. citizen in another country, especially if that country had less than friendly relations with the u.s......so i guess it is possible another one could show up in the future, it just couldnt be legally owned in the u.s.......

13 hours ago, RWB said:

The proportion of "low ball" collectors is very small when compared to normal.

"very small" is not the same as "no one"......not correct still stands....

2 hours ago, RWB said:

No one submits a coin for a down-grade; further skewing "grades" in an unaccountable manner.

not correct......many lo ball collectors do this all the time....

33 minutes ago, Revenant said:

I mean, some would argue we went there just with TPGs / that was the camel's nose in the tent.

I don't see this working. I don't see many / any CAC coins in what I collect because the value add isn't there. CAC only works on higher end things where 1 point matters. Same thing with WINGS. I have 1 stickered WINGS coin. I didn't pay extra for it. I haven't removed it, but I didn't pay extra for it.

not entirely accurate.....cac stickers coins in any grade.....

fried chicken dinner comes to mind....

possibly been subjected to a welding torch......