zadok

On 4/4/2024 at 11:37 PM, Jason Abshier said:

I know that … they are paid to tell someone if their coin is PQ or within the grade of satisfaction that John Albanese and graders who work for him would like if they had to buy the coins themselves then putting a sticker on it to stands out from all rest of coins that are not beaned … it help create a secondary market within market …. They could of set the bar little more higher get stricter with allowance what being sent to them , just like they didn’t accept modern coinage for CAC evaluation … Right now they are basically running parallel with two big dog grading companies who been around for awhile trying to get a little chip in market …. I get it , we’ll see how they do in near future it’s too early to say how they will fare out 

...john's goals r a bit more indepth that just trying to get a part of the market, i believe he is changing the market...the "two top dogs" r playing catch up...the auction results on "beaned" coins speaks loud n clear...also the number of submissions to cacg willing to accept downgrades on crossovers is very telling....

On 4/4/2024 at 5:53 PM, Jason Abshier said:

ANACS always put a numerical number grade along with detailed problem on slab …. IMO ANACS was and still is most toughest on cleaned coins I see tons and tons of ANACS coins detailed cleaned while PCGS and NGC will let some slide and straight grade … cleaned coins usually don’t sell very well , unless they are a key date or scarce coin they will exchange and sell …. Sadly there’s a lot cleaned coins out there which is very very common and PCGS alone detected like 16,000+ of them within last 30 days of grading out of 259,000 coins they graded in last 30 days 

...as one would expect no surprises there....

On 4/4/2024 at 11:37 AM, Jason Abshier said:

No disrespect for John Albanese and graders he hires , but I never fully ever really embraced the CAC beans … problem I saw was common coins in common grades being Beaned with CAC sticker …. When you can buy a higher grades PCGS/NGC coin instead of wasting money on lower grades common dated CAC sticker coin …. Where I do agree with CAC sticker stuff is when it comes to higher end stuff that’s more harder to get on market among collectors … it would be interesting see how CACG would take off , all it needs is its cult followers and supporter to help boost the market  and demands (which is easy) sorta like PCGS dealers/kool-aid drinkers who thinks all their coins are better and worth more than any other grading company out there so in time yeah I think CACG will succeed 

...its already happening...the cac beans r not based on high grades nor rare coins, same criteria applies to all coins, all grades common, scarce or rare....

On 4/3/2024 at 6:01 PM, Henri Charriere said:

The pound sign (£) and for that matter, the euro sign (€) and the dollar sign ($) and Jehovah's name as written in the earliest Hebrew Aramaic texts (removed on orders of King James on or about the year 1611) appeared as a tetragrammaton, none of which is pertinent to the point I was making in my reply to @Zebo.

FYI (Note: an acronym which is, without exception, always capitalized):  The first class prize for the correct answer, submitted by Moi was a free, one-year subscription to a [an otherwise prohibitively expensive] journal covering such matters as personal privacy, warrants, search and seizure, wiretaps, surveillance, the FOIA and a myriad of other subjects relating to their application in law.  Aside:  "Dialing a phone number" and "dropping a dime" on someone shall continue to be used long after we are both gone.

Submitted for your approval, in my never-ending quest to "broaden the body of knowledge."

...point was nothing official bout it....

epitath:

...here lies q.a.

knew not a pound

an octothorpe found

won a prize

but no renown

sad, sad demise....

.......(capital letters r only for important people).......

On 4/4/2024 at 1:37 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I just started to get into early Clint Eastwood stuff. 

..."a fistfull of saints" has a nice ring to it...fyi, the saints market is active... there was a local transaction tween dealers here pcgs au50 1907 hr bought 8500 sold 9500, wasnt in my wheelhouse but i thought very reasonable price?....

On 4/2/2024 at 6:56 AM, Henri Charriere said:

No, Zebo, I did not. I tell you I was so laser-focused on a comment our Grand Master made in a Topic regarding the fate of that missing coin that Eagles and Half-Eagles were the only thing on my mind.  My apologies.  I did not even check back right away reasoning no one would be able to come up with an answer right away. I knew France and Germany had many more mints than we had, but I certainly did not know England was had even more and was notably prolific in that regard. If I had it to do over again, I certainly would have made my question clearer.  I apologize for the confusion.

I have on occasion corrected Wikipedia and even book and newspaper publishers. Much to the surprise of a prominent author of the history of German zeppelins, and having studied the subject exhaustively in my teens, I was successful in proving one such rigid airship was mislabeled; I was the winner of the contest insisting the official name of the symbol, #, was not "the pound sign," but an "octothorpe," and I also resurrected the rumor proving the Daily News inadvertently printed the term "bull----" in the heat of a courtroom argument by citing date of volume and issue number, which had escaped the notice of censors. It remains a novelty.

Your point is well-tKen.  I do appreciate your input, as aways.

...fyi, there is no "official" name for this symbol...the "pound sign" has been around for a few centuries n is well grounded historically n numismatically derived from the british currency symbol much the same as the $ symbol being derived from the abbreviated symbol for these united states; whereas, the "octothorpe" name was a 1960s technical extension of the symbol to provide non-numeric function on evolving keyboard usage derived from being 8-pointed n umbrage to one, jim thorpe...

On 3/31/2024 at 12:16 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

I'm thinking the number is going to be between 24-36 obv and rev designs by PM on coinage, current list is up to 20 or so. I'm not planning on picking up examples of the same design used on different denominations or by different countries, the number of pieces would be huge if going that route. The unknown is the number of unmarked designs such as the British '37 three pence reverse and Figi six pence turtle rev, pieces with no initials will be more difficult to identify and add to the list. 

...i think u r correct, after looking further his coinage designs were considerably more than i first realized... british honduras, iraq, jamaica, new zealand, hong kong, jersey, cyprus, mauritius...im sure u have more.... 

On 4/3/2024 at 1:31 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

We have lots of useless posts ("Hi, I found this coin in my washing machine, can you tell me if it's worth $10,000 ?" ) but we also have some pretty smart guys here and lots of VERY useful threads. 

Anybody who obtained SPECIFIC data on their particular coins or coin types would do well to make sure they saved the information on the various threads here.  You have stuff here you can't get in other forums, books, periodicals, etc.

...the good the bad n the ugly....

On 4/1/2024 at 6:03 PM, bobbyboshay said:

Fellas.  This is a chat  about a coin how do we get to calling people fools and talking about Basketball don’t it show some. Levels of ignorance and stupidity and immaturity  come on I made this discussion about the American eagle 🦅 so how we get this far with negative comments towards each other’s and too think people  consider you statement about the coin make since  now you don’t care about your  reputation  people look forward to other people opinions don’t you think now people would not care what you have to say because majority of the time everything is negative so I want to say if you don’t have nothing positive to say please don’t say nothing at all it will be appreciated in the future if you all do so   Because people are trying to learn something instead of negativity thanks ps This comment is no April fool  so can you all grow up and stop acting like little juveniles please for once every time with the 🐂 💩 so call adult. Act your age . 

...revisit ur thoughts after another thousand posts or so n after u have been subjected to some of the bs u will read here...until then ill just overlook the above....

On 4/1/2024 at 2:24 PM, VKurtB said:

Hey, I’m now an Alabaman. We resemble that remark. BTW, what’s the difference between the Crimson Tide football team, and the Crimson Tide basketball team?

…

waiting

…

The Crimson Tide basketball team ACTUALLY DESERVE their Final Four berth. 

...u have to whisper that down there....

On 4/1/2024 at 9:57 AM, Henri Charriere said:

[TO MY LEGIONS OF DETRACTORS, @zadokCHIEF AMONG THEM... IT GIVES ME GREAT PLEASURE TO PRESENT TO YOU A SINCERE, NO-HOLDS-BARRED COMPLIMENT FROM A MEMBER WHOSE TENURE HERE PRECEDES MINE, AND NOT A FEW OTHER MAJOR CONTENDERS.  

TO THE OP:  BY VIRTUE OF YOUR LONGEVITY HERE, IT IS ALL THE MORE REMARKABLE YOU WOULD RISK YOUR REPUTATION AND CREDIBILITY TO CONCUR WITH SOMETHING I HAVE WRITTEN.

YOU ARE IN POSSESSION OF A NUMBERED HISTORICAL ARTIFACT. I DO HOPE YOU, AND YOUR HEIRS, FULLY APPRECIATE THE SIGNIFICANCE OF WHAT YOU HAVE AND TREASURE IT ALWAYS!] 🐓 

(Posted at the discretion of Moderation.)

 

...well it is april first...n there is no limit to the number of fools out there...stands to reason a few would show up today, unfortunately some show up every day...but then again a few do live in the shallow end of the gene pool....

On 3/31/2024 at 12:16 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

I'm thinking the number is going to be between 24-36 obv and rev designs by PM on coinage, current list is up to 20 or so. I'm not planning on picking up examples of the same design used on different denominations or by different countries, the number of pieces would be huge if going that route. The unknown is the number of unmarked designs such as the British '37 three pence reverse and Figi six pence turtle rev, pieces with no initials will be more difficult to identify and add to the list. 

...ur endeavor is compelling n exhaustive, im not sure that there is a comprehensive list of either his coinage or medal designs...short of discovering a personal list of his own ur list may be the definitive one...i agree a collection of just his coinage designs n not a collection by denominations would suffice, n even that would be ambitious.... 

On 3/31/2024 at 8:25 PM, VKurtB said:

PRECISELY! And why would they not? The philosophy is, and should be, that the more valuable coin should have the higher grade (within the same issue). Otherwise, what is the purpose of grading? Do you REALLY want to live in a world where a AU58 might sell for more than the same coin in MS61? Really? I wouldn’t. But that will happen quite often with strict technical grading. Grading needs to have a purpose other than counting nicks. 

...that day is already here....

On 3/31/2024 at 11:13 AM, Henri Charriere said:

Aside from Proofs, which are presided over by their own coterie of Principal Keepers, this is a very simple concept.

If a coin exhibits "wear," whatever the cause, it has irretrievably lost its claim to its birthrite:  "uncirculated." It is condemned as circulated.  If it be an otherwise uncirculated coin but was assaulted, that fact is noted by AU-59.  That lets the collector know there is NO wear save for the intrusive disqualifying mark, it is NOT circulated.  It is an uncirculated coin that, through no fault of its own, encountered a hit-and-run.

If a coin exhibits no "wear" whatsoever, regardless where it was found (in circulation, or not) it retains its birthrite, "uncirculated." Unfortunately, bag marks on old silver dollars, punched Trade Dollars, and the like, have been granted exemptions, to a point, as have otherwise exemplary examples which are granted variances from the tables of preservation, for cause.

In some quarters, this is known as the time-tested Charrier's principle.

No coin can aspire to AU status. That can only be achieved by default from higher grades and only by invitation and acclimation. Bear in mind, rendering an opinion is not an actionable offense. Like it or not, the grade of a coin is what its owner says it is.  This goes for price as well. 

...total b***s***...just another example of babbling on just to babble, adding nothing to the narrative...perhaps someday one of the AI algorithms will just filter out c**p like this so no one has to even think bout reading it, they could call it QA's commode principle filter....

On 3/31/2024 at 9:59 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Updating my list now, I was missing a few of those.

Percy was a busy guy, unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a list of his designs used on coinage or one of medals produced. Going to check with the RM and see if they have anything.

...i believe his coinage designs were minimal...he was more of a designer for medals, trophies, works of art...later he was prominent in designing architectural works i.e. interior facades for hotel, banks commercial n possibly govt bldgs...especially in the areas of metal designs...i didnt see written comments but i believe he shied away from those submissions that required govt commission acceptance/approval...time consuming, red tape n probably lower commissions...early on he sought out submissions for medals, awards, trophies etc but went more commercial after his reputation was established....

On 3/31/2024 at 2:05 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Would you agree that the "market grading" slide for the most part has NOT been a change within MS or AU of 2-4 grade increments....but the JUMP from the AU to the MS bucket ? 

It's not the downgrade of 1 or even 2 increments that is leading to this polarized debate...it's the entire issue of MS vs. AU and the definition or tolerance for the slightest wear/friction/rub on the highest points of the coin.

Nobody is getting animated about a coin being EF-40 or EF-45...it's the downgrade from MS to AU by CACG that is causing the friction (no pun intended  ).

...u r trying to over simplify a complex issue with different variables...e.g. raw submissions vs crossovers, "market vs technical", ms/au vs au/ms, au55 vs au58, not to mention the issues regarding toning etc...moral is dont put all ur easter eggs in one basket...just to illustrate one of ur concerns, ms to au...submitter has option of agreeing to crossover with reduction of grade or refusing reduction n return of coin, so many diff reasons to go both ways depending on what the coin is...i presently have coins for crossover submitted both ways, some im hoping for the reduction, some it would be counter productive...not a one size fits all scenario....

On 3/30/2024 at 9:50 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Thanks for the assist on this one Z. 

I'm working on a P M type set of obv and rev designs, do you know of a list of his coin and medal designs? I have not been able to find one as of yet. 

...the only info i have in my notes...

war memorial for durban, south africa...

great seal for england...

trophy for king presented to cadet corp of british empire...

british empire exhibition medals 1923, 1924...

king's trophy medal r.n.a....

nobel medals...

mond medals...

egypian coin obverses king fuad...

irag coin obverse king feisul...

...he also worked pre ww1 in london n post ww1 in paris from 1914-1924 for various medal design studios...bout all i have....

On 3/31/2024 at 1:57 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Well, this is something where the professional organizations should get off their butts and create something to give buyers confidence that someone is legit.  I guess if there is a very easy/liberal return policy that isn't bad but a seal of approval from an overseer would eliminate unhappy purchases.  Word spreads, especially in on the Internet, Social Media, forum message boards, etc.  If a dealer didn't have the necessary certification it would speak volumes.

Kind of surprised there isn't.  I see it in other fields -- I have money management certifications (CFA, CFP) for instance -- jewelers have their Gemological 

...those "rules, codes" u reference only apply to the organizations that issue them n then only to their members, PNG members ascribe to certain ethical premises but only for their members...there is n never will be a mandatory requirement for all or every coin "dealer" to join any certified coin organization...would u really want such n organization in the first place?...as u mentioned "word spreads" so rule of thumb stay informed, better yet learn how to grade coins n if possible buy in person....

On 3/30/2024 at 9:50 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Thanks for the assist on this one Z. 

I'm working on a P M type set of obv and rev designs, do you know of a list of his coin and medal designs? I have not been able to find one as of yet. 

...ill look in my notes if any other coin designs, i personally never tried tracking any his medal designs...let u know....

On 3/30/2024 at 8:25 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

...percy would be proud of u, one of my favorites...nice even toning as well

On 3/29/2024 at 10:20 PM, VKurtB said:

Easter is March 31. April 1 is the day after Easter. Orthodox Easter is May 5. 

...every forum has its fool...every month n every day....

On 3/29/2024 at 12:10 PM, RWB said:

Hubs and dies were made in December 1907, and patterns struck in January 1908. Then everything was suspended until Congress passed the IGWT bill, and TR decided to try Bigelow's goofy (and false) sunken relief idea --- about 3 months delay. (Lettering the edge was no sop big a deal as often assumed. US Mint had expetrience lettering Mexican coinage.

...im checking my webster as we speak....

On 3/28/2024 at 9:40 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Is that necessary today with 27" Hi-Def monitors available for $200 ?

I get that you didn't have that option when they filmed "Marathon Man" with Laurence Olivier and Dustin Hoffman in 1976, but you get realistic pictures without the cost. 

...there r just certain things u dont buy from photographs...diamonds, oriental rugs, paintings, certain high grade coins, exotic women...the proof is in the pudding, seeing n touching can not be artificially duplicated, at least not yet...same with empirically grading coins from a scan, just not something our current technology can do....

On 3/28/2024 at 5:43 PM, tj96 said:

Thank you for that reality check.  I was thinking it was just me.  That guy is getting on my nerves!  Maybe he'll evaluate himself and get some self reflection.

...nope, he is too far gone....

On 3/28/2024 at 2:59 PM, Jason Abshier said:

Thanks goodness they did not dabble into world coin sectors … they were talking about it once but plan must of gotten scrapped probably due to large spread in world graded coinage lack of population reports and so on …. We are living in the days where coin grades over lap so much nobody cares unless they can get a higher grade that worth more $$$… so it’s safe to say all everyone cares about is flipping coins for more money ? But not the true to heart collecting ?   but “hey ! Theres a new grading company let’s promote them and spend our hard earn money and jack the prices up!!!” …. Welcome to Market grading !!!! Driven by dealers and graders and buyers who take the biggest hit spending their hard earned cash 

...not sure that the tide is flowing that way as strong as it has been in the past....