GoldFinger1969

Silver is a mostly-globally traded market. It is NOT exclusively local where a monopoly supplier can set price.

Basic pricing theory says that a large premium should translate into a higher underlying price.

Until the Langbord Ten (and any others) are liberated from the clutches of Fort Knox, the 1933 Weitzman/Farouk Saint probably will remain at the top, unless the U.S. Government decides to sell the 1849 Liberty DE.

MCMVII High Reliefs: Pricing remain strong. After watching AU-58's fall to just over $10K with bp., an AU-50 CAC went for just over $10K this past weekend. Looks like prices are up 15-20%. A Details HR coin also went for just over $10K. Prices for similar coins were in the $7-$8K range for most of 2019 and 2020. Rising prices across the board, high-quality CAC and "+" coins for commons like 1923-D going for just under $7,000 up from $5,500 or so 18 months ago.

SOMEBODY should do an update, I know QDB is getting up there in years so maybe his time is not there for an updated edition. I'm surprised they haven't done one, gotta believe they are talking about it internally. Anybody who bought the 1st Edition probably has interest in a new revised one, plus new/recent DE fans/collectors who want something that covers both Liberty and Saint DEs and is a bit less detailed than your Saints-only book....are all potential buyers.

Are you talking about your Saint-Gaudens DE book as an "update" to the smaller/thinner Morse Collection book (2006) put out by Heritage ? I kind of considered your book separate and new, not an updated edition, since it is almost 2x as many pages and not just 99% a re-copying plus updated numbers and some new commentary here-and-there. And I think the Morse book borrowed heavily from the actual catalogs in late-2005 from Heritage so it was pretty much just a re-packaging in large sections. I was talking about an update to the Whitman Double Eagle book by Bowers, not yours, Roger. Only edition is dated 2004. Most of the 2004 Whitman Double Eagle book is still valid. Just need updated prices....more recent sales data like your book....new/updated information on hoards like SS Central America (Liberty DEs)....and some new commentaries added on or brand-new for some chapters. Certainly will take some time....but nothing as much as writing and creating the 1st Edition of the book from scratch. Or your magnus opus.

I meant about the market for coins, collectibles, Covid and online activity, etc.

Is Kitco's price for an ASE or silver in general ? That bid-ask spread is fine. Pinehurst is $8 higher than I think is fair.

I asked them when we might get a 2nd Edition of the Double Eagle book (2004).....no response to date. Even if only updated prices and minimal new commentary, it shouldn't take 17 years to get a new version I would think.

You mean the bid price is $26 or so but the ask is closer to $40 ? That's insane.

That attitude might have made sense in March/April 2020 with the pandemic raging and financial markets hyper-volatile....it sure doesn't now with stock markets at or near record levels.

I see lots of articles and commentaries by the NGC higher-ups, haven't seen as many from PCGS in the last year or two. Maybe I'm wrong, that's my impression.

If Silver is at $26 and the retail price should be $32 or so....and instead it's closer to $40.....then lots of dealers/collectors should be selling silver ASEs and other silver to take advantage of the higher price and the Mint should also be producing/selling lots of ASEs in the mid-to-high $30's when they should be getting high-$20's/low$30's......and all this should reduce that premium. Not sure why it hasn't though your explanation does offer some valid reasons.

The whole "shortage" thing was weird....if there was a shortage the price should have skyrocketed to bring supply and demand into equilibrium, like lumber going from $400 to $1,700 and now back to $950. Silver was weird in that the price never moved up that much but the main vehicle -- ASEs -- saw their premium shoot up bigtime. I don't track ASE premiums but you would think any deviation above/below the historical premium norm should fade over time. Large premiums/discounts should be temporary. Only if the government was setting the price and didn't want silver prices higher would they use higher premiums to achieve the same effect. My understanding is that with silver at about $26/oz. that ASEs should sell for about $32 from your LCS and are instead closer to $36 or more. Maybe it's come down ?

Could be cost-cutting and eliminations of positions under the new private equity owners.

Did you do the earlier 3 editions, Roger ?

Who's your beer distributor ?

What ARE the reasons that the premiums on ASEs are so high ? Why hasn't the premium faded the last few months ? I wouldn't expect such a premium to persist unless the price was skyrocketing.

I doubt it -- would hope not -- it's probably just logistical supply chain issues. Cost of transporting silver to the Mints may have gone up since March 2020.

MCMVII HRs and Saints stacking problem: I wonder why this was a big problem. Since cashiers didn't have much demand for Double Eagles, why worry about if they stacked perfectly or not ? Pennies, nickles, dimes, quarters, etc....I get the need to stack, you're dealing with them all the time. Why worry about DEs ?

$4,112,500: The Bloomfield UHR, considered by some the finest of the Ultras, was sold for just over $4 MM in April: https://coinweek.com/us-coins/1907-ultra-high-relief-double-eagle-graded-by-pcgs-sells-for-4-1-million/

Regrettably, as Roger detailed in his book, alot of the documentation and back-story regarding the hoard were lost when MTB's lower Manhattan offices were flooded by Hurricane Sandy in 2012. Most of the story was on paper, not digital.

Not proven, but appears to be a hoard from El Salvador which was in the midst of a civil war in 1983. I misread your post...no, this has nothing to do with the SS Central America but with Central American countries.

I am talking about the Central American Hoard of 1983 which had close to 47,000 coins and most of them double eagles and most of those DEs were Saints. Lots of early Saints from 1909-1915 and 1922. From Heritage including comments from David Akers: "...In 1983, a large hoard of U.S. double eagles, mostly Saints, but many Liberty Heads as well, was discovered in Central America. The hoard consisted of approximately 47,000 coins, more than 90% of them uncirculated, including many thousands which graded MS64, MS65, and even higher. The hoard was purchased by Manfra, Tordella and Brookes (MTB)." "...When Gerald Bauman of Manfra, Tordella and Brookes called me one day in 1983 to tell me about the incredible hoard of U.S. double eagles they had just acquired from Central America, he said they had large quantities of scarce, beautiful, original high quality Liberty Heads (1901-S, 1902-S, and 1905-S among others), and also a great many incredible quality Saints including such dates as 1909-S, 1910-S, 1911-S, 1914-S, 1915-S, and 1916-S. Obviously, I was impressed and interested in seeing them and purchasing as many as I could. But then Bauman let the hammer drop and said the hoard also included hundreds of seldom, if ever seen, choice uncirculated and even better examples of the 1908-D No Motto, 1908-D With Motto, 1909-D and 1922-S. Needless to say, I could not get to New York City fast enough and it turned out that everything Bauman had said about the coins was absolutely true, perhaps even understated. After spending an entire afternoon looking at representative samples of each issue, we discussed the terms under which I could buy the coins I wanted. My greatest interest was in the four rarest issues, including the 1909-D, and Bauman said that I could pick out what I wanted on an individual basis if I were willing to pay a substantial premium price and would take a minimum guaranteed quantity of each issue. After seeing the quality of the coins it was clear this was a reasonable request on Bauman's part and an easy decision on mine to agree. I still rank this as one of my greatest thrills in the coin business, both for myself personally and for the many collectors to whom I sold the coins. The 1909-D and 1922-S were the real prizes of the hoard and it is not hyperbole to note that virtually all of the choice, very choice and gem uncirculated examples of both of these issues that are available to collectors today came from the Central American hoard." Roger's book may have more information on the hoard or he may have just quoted Akers and others. And Bowers book on hoards probably has its own commentary but I haven't bought the book yet.

But I bet it was mentioned in The Numismatist and collector mags of the time.....CoinWeek, CoinWorld, etc.