Zebo

Let's get back to the subject - who produced better designs. How do these artists compare to designs on modern coinage? 

Much better 

better

equal

not as good

no where near as good?

13 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

When it comes to the most expensive coins generically (not specifically this coin), those who buy and sell it are a lot more interested in exaggeration to inflate the price level as much as possible.  It's marketing and nothing else.  US "collecting" is the absolute worst in doing this.

Or the best - depending on what side of the coin you are on. 

6 hours ago, Walkerfan said:

You left out Herman McNeil, which is probably my very favorite.

Then Saint Gaudens, Gobrecht and Longacre, in that order.

All are stunning in their own way.

Completely slipped my mind - add Herman McNeil.  thanks for reminding me.

7 hours ago, 1917 said:

imagine if Weinman and St. Guadens collaborated on a coin and we got Weinman's stunning walking liberty obverse with St.Guadens fantastic flying eagle reverse on the same coin!

A bit off topic, but which flying eagle do you like the best and least:

St. Guadens

Christen Gobrecht

or Longacre? 

I agree, but back to the 1795...

8 hours ago, Revenant said:

I wonder if these people think these things are rare just because they personally have never seen one before or if they're just fishing for suckers.

Fishing for suckers. All greed. 

I just bought Bower's book on Eagles. Looks like I'll also add yours to my library when it comes out. Are you thinking about one for the half Eagles and quarter Eagles as well?

5 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I"m pretty sure he meant the city....must be some nice hotels though near the convention center and Camden Yards.  I assume those are the safe areas.

I assume Baltimore has those.  But maybe not. 

The inner harbor area where the convention center is located - is generally safe. I'm not sure about now with the on-going riots gripping the nation, however. Hotels near-by are fine. 

16 hours ago, Ross J said:

You can (if you don't mean upstate!)  I do that too.  Not really a fan of Baltimore.

Not a fan of the Whitman show or Baltimore itself?

9 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Nice Zebo ....what grade ?  And the obverse ?

It is a MS70 - I only posted the reverse, because I like it better than the obverse. The Flying Eagle cent is another favorite of mine. Ross's photos of the UHR are much better than my iPhone photos - but here is the obverse.

On May 29, 2020 at 7:55 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

On May 29, 2020 at 7:33 PM,  Ross J said: 

And YES, i like the 2009 UHR and think it is the coolest thing the mint has ever done for collectors, even making them in sufficient quantity so everyone who wanted one, while they were available, could get one.  Thank you Ed Moy!  

 

Agreed, I have an OGB from the Mint but will look to buy a PF70 or maybe PF69 at a future coin show.

Just to wet your appetite GF:

26 minutes ago, RWB said:

"But wasn't some Europeans worried about the United States going to adopt the silver standard, even though in reality it highly unlikely (free silver movement), and increased acquisition of gold in response to the perceived threat of a silver standard?"

Nope. The only concern related to silver was an attempt to adopt a truly bi-metallic standard at a fixed, if fictional, ratio. France and the Latin Monetary Union had long before shown that such as system was unworkable. Members of the US Congress - Alexander Stephens principal among them - tolerated such nonsense as Wheeler Hubbell's Goloid and various other silver-gold alloys so long as it served their political purposes. Adoption of a bi-metallic standard never received meaningful support. Even if Bryan had been elected President, and proposed such legislation, it would not have been adopted.

Good to know - thanks Roger. 

On May 13, 2020 at 8:30 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Zebo, report back here or create new threads to discuss the book(s) and/or gold coins covered in them once you start reading them.

I'm about two thirds through Bower's book on gold dollars. It is laid out in the same format as many of his other books (year and mint reviews). Each year Bower provides an overall summary of what happened that year of numismatic interest and sometimes other selected items. I would recommend the book if you are interested in purchasing a gold dollar. I would also recommend that you should use the book in conjunction with Douglas Winter's books on the branch mint gold dollars. Combined - you should be very well versed in the subject and able to make an educated selection/purchase. 

My favorites dollars are the Type II dollars - especially from the Charlotte and Dahlonega mints, even though they were very poorly struck) along with the 1861 Dahlonega dollar (Type III) that is believed to have been minted entirely by the Confederate Sates of America (CSA) after they took over the mint. 

57 minutes ago, RWB said:

Silver was only used for international settlements when the receiving country was on a silver standard - China, India (well-not entirely), Spain, Vietnam, etc.

The fallacy of the "Free Silver" argument was presumption that some sort of natural relationship existed between silver and gold. The real point that should have gotten attention was uniformity/equivalence of all legal tender monetary units. For commercial expansion and international trade to grow, the use of "money of account" versus "specie" had to be simplified. (See The Big Problem of Small Change for insights from an earlier era.) A Franc, Mark, Dollar, Pound and other units had to have exactly the same commercial/commodity value for robust trade. For example, the "dollar" was the United States' name for its monetary unit. But US Customs Agents only accepted gold in payment of duties -- and even then, gold notes were demanded and preferred even over physical new gold coin or Mint-certified fine bars. Currency that said "Legal tender for all debts, public and private" did not really mean "ALL" just "SOME - MAYBE - WE'RE NOT REALLY SURE." How can companies operate efficiently if "a dollar" is not "a dollar" -- and never try to pay a Customs bill in "silver dollars".....? !

This was also a severe domestic problem - a silver dollar was not equal in purchasing power to a gold dollar; and a silver certificate might not result in as much penny candy as a silver dollar, and a gold dollar might get extra candy.

But wasn't some Europeans worried about the United States going to adopt the silver standard, even though in reality it highly unlikely (free silver movement), and increased acquisition of gold in response to the perceived threat of a silver standard?

Rarity is measured in degrees and has slightly different interuptations world-wide. The below chart are just a few of those interuptations.

50 minutes ago, kbbpll said:

I was just noticing an example of it this morning. Two 1900 10c PCGS MS64, in the same auction. One $312, 10 bids. The other $840, 16 bids. The latter in an old holder with CAC. NGC price guide says $290 in MS64 and $575 in MS65. So both coins sold above the price guide, and the $840?? They think it would regrade at MS67? That CAC sticker isn't $500 worth. When looking at price guides and actual sales, I think it's often a matter of the psychology of "winning", more than the reality of value and the actual coins.

Top pop for the new PCGS CAC registry set???  Just kidding!

One interesting story associated with the 1920 S Sovereign that is now part of a institutional collection that is no longer available for private collectors.

Capt. J. J. Cullimore Allen wrote one of the earliest reference books on Sovereigns. It was published in 1965. At that time, Allen's collection was not complete. He was missing the 1920 S sovereign. 

 Capt. J. J. Cullimore Allen died in 1970, but D. G. Liddel of Spinks & Son fulfilled one last promise - to obtain a 1920 S sovereign for the collection to make it complete. This was accomplished in 1978. 

 For sovereign collectors, I consider Allen's book as one of About ten to have in their library.

1 hour ago, physics-fan3.14 said:

What sort of stuff do you mean? Like packaging materials, promotional materials around the release? 

Or do you mean contemporary artwork or artefacts? 

I personally am mostly a coin collector, I don't usually get the paraphernalia surrounding the coin. But, if you're making a display showcase, that sort of thing can really bring it to life. 

Just interested in what others collect that is associated with their collection.

the below is just a couple of items that are associated with my sovereign collection.

Sovereign and half sovereign balance, weights and a gentlemans sovereign holder:

What types of items do you collect that are tied to or associated with your collection? Post some of your displays or items.

Where are those Russian cargo planes when you need one?

There has been much written about the 1920 S Sovereign as being the rarest sovereign minted. There was a flurry of activity during the 2012 - 2015 time frame with three of the four known (now five, and I believe possibly seven or eight) changing hands. One of which was a specimen coin that was actually thought to be struck in 1926 when the mint closed. Two of the sovereigns are held in institutional holdings and are out of the reach of the public. That leaves only two or three that are currently known, including the specimen, that are being held in private collections. 

There can only be this small number of collections that can be complete  - Australian sovereigns 1855-1931.

The fifth sovereign was offered in auction in 2018, but went unsold. I've been waiting for it to reappear and am wondering if it was sold by private treaty or just taken off the market by the Owner. It will be interesting if and when it reappears and what it will sell for at that time. The 2018 auction estimate was low in my opinion and it wasn't hyped or cataloged as the others that sold earlier. Hopefully they will do a better job next time. 

I too believe the South Africian issues sold for a strong price. Many of the large sovereign collections include the South Africian series in addition to those that collect only the short series. Even so, those prices are up there. 

I haven't analyzed the overall auction results from last nights Heritage auction of the Carranett collection of sovereigns. This was a very high end collection - mostly in PCGS plastic (285 lots). The collection contained some rarities highlights include:

1908 C - $21,600 SP65

1909 C - $31,200  SP65

1911 C - $21,600 SP67 (condition rarity)

1913 C - $5,520 MS64

1916 C - $38,400 MS64

1921 M - $33,600 MS64

1923 S - $28,800 MS64

1923 SA - $52,800 MS66

1924 SA - $28,800  MS66

1926 S - $26,400 MS64

While the collection did not contain the rarest sovereign or some other rarities that you would expect, the collection was not complete, it did contain some of them. The collection appears to have been focused on very high quality.

Watching Mark open the can and bag was more satisfying than watching Rivera open Al Capone's vault. It's nice that he produced a video of it.