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JTO

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Journal Entries posted by JTO

  1. JTO

    Confluence of Collectors

    By JTO,

    This coin is not a top pop, nor a high value or even a coin of striking beauty.  Why would I buy it?  It is an intersection between a man who was one of the most infamous collectors and a man who was the most accomplished US coin collector.
    The infamous man is King Farouk of Egypt who conspicuously collected coins en-mass.  He is responsible for the legality of the only 1933 double eagle that is legal to own.  That particular 1933 double eagle was exported by Farouk who actually applied for an export license which was mistakenly granted in 1944 (shocking that the Federal government screwed up...)  The Fed's realized their error and tried to get the coin back from Egypt but WWII intervened and efforts were paused.  Farouk was subsequently overthrown and his coins seized by the People of Egypt and auctioned in London.  The US attempted again to get the coin back but it again disappeared until it was found in the possession of British coin dealer Stephen Fenton.  After some haggling by the Fed's agreed to an auction and in a 6 minute flurry away it went from Sotheby's New York to an anonymous bidder for $6.6 million, plus the 15-percent buyer's premium, and my favorite part an additional $20 to the US Treasury to "monetize" to coin (making it the only [legal tender] , legal to own 1933 double eagle.)  The $6.6 million hammer price was split between Fenton and the US government.
    The most accomplished coin collector is of course Lewis E. Eliasberg Sr. who accomplished a task that will never be repeated.  He collected one of every US coin, by date and mint mark from 1792 to the date of completion circa 1950.  He too had a 1933 double eagle, but not the same the Farouk specimen.  When Eliasberg learned that the coins were considered contraband by the US government he turned his in to be melted at no charge to the government.  Some of his more notable coins were the 1933 double eagle, a 1913 Liberty head nickel and his last coin to complete his set a 1873-CC no-arrows Liberty seated dime.  Two caveats to the Eliasberg collection: 1) he selected the best coins he could find but did not collect proof coins as separate from circulation Philadelphia strikes and 2) he had no 1849 double eagle of which only two were minted.  One  of the 1849 double eagles resides in the Smithsonian National Coin Collection and the other was lost to history.  However, based on the fact only 2 were minted the 1849 $20 is considered a pattern rather than a circulation coin and thus not needed to complete his collection.
    This Coin: provides an interesting intersection between the two.  The obverse of this common Egyptian 20 Piastres displays King Farouk and the pedigree shows that this coin was owned by Louis Eliasberg.  An interesting side note is that the 20 Piastres was before and after 1938, a silver coin.  Only in 1938 was it made of gold in honor of the King's wedding.

    John

  2. JTO
    Here is a coin that I paid a whopping $360 for, obviously in 2002.  I was proud of my find because all the other bidder appeared to be bidding on the holder not the coin.  The value of a 1908 with "Motto" is, or was higher than the no motto variety.  I paid $40 under greysheet for th coin which was about par for the with motto variety at the time.  I took it to the PCGS booth at Long Beach and they aggressively offered to reholder the coin for free, I passed.  So the coin sits misunderstood by its holder.  I actually have a collection of these and in my experience I have had a easier time finding error PCGS than NGC coins.  This is a satirical post bout PCGS for those that are wondering what I am talking about.  The motto is on the reverse just above the sun and the holder clearly says that there is no motto, a motto that Theodore Roosevelt felt violated the separation of Church and State.  Next a 1849 Gold dollar in an open wreath holder with a close wreath.
     
    John
     



  3. JTO
    What a journey this coin has had.  I bought it from Stacks in March 2012 as: "1923-S Standing Liberty Quarter. AU Details--Environmental Damage (PCGS)."  I looked at the coin as said I just don't see the damage but I do see a full head.  I bid up to $1,375.00 for the problem coin and took it home.  Then I CAREFULLY conserved to coin.  About a year later at Long Beach I took it to PCGS (because NGC had no at show grading) and  show graded it.  It came back in a PCGS AU-58 FH.  I was quite pleased with myself.  Subsequently, as the war between NGC and PCGS got going I decided to cross it to NGC.  So, at the 2015 FUN show I decided to wait in line to "Ask the Expert" (Mark Salzberg) who opined that the coin should not be in an AU holder.  I told him that a 60 something without full head was a loss to me, as I cared more about the FH designation than the grade.  He said it was clearly a full head and he wrote on the holder MS-61 FH and signed his name,  I asked, meekly, if the coin might still come back in a "details" or non-FH holder?  Salzberg patiently explained that what he wrote would be the grade period, he is the final word at NGC.  I must say he was kind and respectful and his passion and care for the hobby came through clearly.  So the journey for this coin has been:...Raw to PCGS AU details environmental damage... to PCGS AU-58 FH and finally thanks to Mr Salzberg... it rests for good in an NGC MS-61 FH.  The pictures are here you be the judge...
     



  4. JTO
    There seems to be a growing corporate strategy for NGC to focus on the Non-US market over the US and leave the US to PCGS.  I may be wrong and this is in no way a dump on NGC (you can read my laudatory comments about Mark Salzberg and NGC in the "A SLQ Problem Coin's Journey to Righteousness" journal thread.)  https://www.ngccoin.com/boards/blogs/entry/292-a-slq-problem-coins-journey-to-righteousness/
     
    It appears that while NGC is increasing its investments in the international market it is not doing as much on upgrading the U.S. platform.  The data I use to make the conclusion that NGC is shifting their focus to the Non-US market over the US is based on 1) they dumped all PCGS coins out of existing "World" slots, years ago. 2) The registry no longer starts with US coins but it takes an egalitarian approach to all countries listing coins alphabetically by nation (I start each of my "registry encounters" with Albania.) 3) While they have decreased their presence at US shows (Long Beach etc.) they have increased their presence internationally.  This includes both a greater presence at international shows and NGC has opened new "bricks and mortar" Centers in many other countries especially in Asia.  This "corporate approach" is probably working as they seem to be the dominant grading service for both World and Ancient coins.  Their volume has increased particularly in Asian paper money.
     
    With regard to the registry platform the registry navigation drives me crazy.  When I finish working on my Complete Standing Liberty Quarter (SLQ) set and want to go back to Quarters to work on my "one per date" SLQ set or Early Quarters set and use the back navigation button on the browser, the browser does not go back to the Quarter's registry page but back to the first page of the NGC Registry (Albania.)  I met with the NGC staff at a FUN show and explained this problem and they were clearly aware of as they said that others had complained as well.  Alas 2 years and no fix and you cannot "bookmark” page 2, 3 or 8 even as a go around.  If you bookmark page 6 the Registry opens to the first page (Albania.) 
     
    I believe in NGC and find their grading more consistent and fair than PCGS.  I much prefer dealing with Mark Salzberg over David Hall. I remember when Heritage Auction was more ANACS than PCGS or NGC.  Then ANACS slowly disappeared and it was NGC and PCGS.  Now, for U.S., coins I am seeing a decrease in NGC leaving PCGS alone.  I hope NGC does not abandon the U.S. market by default (by not focusing their prime effort in the U.S. market and shifting it to the World market.)  As I said I believe in and prefer NGC.   NGC brought me the Edge View which brings some coins to life.  NGC, for the most part, photographs every coin that they grade (PCGS does not.)   That photo can help you recover a stolen coin (I have done it.)   These efforts by NGC are what sets them as the market leader regardless of who was first to slab a coin (PCGS 1986 and NGC 1987) or who the Investor Class prefers.  Please don't leave U.S. NGC!
     
    John


  5. JTO
    Improperly Cleaned or Improperly Graded
    Some of my most beautiful coins are Improperly Cleaned (problem coins). If you look at my (JTO) 1792-1964 type set and view the pictures of the 1793 wreath large cent and the Capped Bust Half Dollar I think you will see what I mean. I think, in some respects we, as collectors, have lost our way. The grading services have hijacked our hobby. Numismatics is a form of art albeit within historical contexts. With the registry system "collectors" seem to prefer an ugly MS-61 over a beautiful AU-58.
    Your posting raised an important question based on the subjective nature of the grading process. The real question is not how we should educate ourselves on identifying the possibility of a gentle cleaning occurring over 100 years ago (one that leaves no hairlines, does not disrupt the luster or SIGNIFICANTLY alter the coin's appearance); the question is how do we get the major grading services to use a more reasonable set of standards.
    I have some of the same experiences with the grading services as you...
    1909-S Indian Cent ICG AU-58 Details corroded... I CLEANED with acetone and it became a 1909-S Indian Cent PCGS AU-58.
    An 1893 Isabella 25c NGC body bag "Altered Surfice" became PCGS MS-63
    I really enjoy the registry game and I wish there was more emphasis on the coins in the sets rather than just the holders the coins are in.
    John

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  6. JTO

    Fake 1893-S

    By JTO,

    Let's move on...
    What is the difference you ask? Okay I will again play the straight man and set you up for some insane response.
    Long Red Arrows show tight cluster of curls on the real coin with wide rivers between on the fake
    Short red arrows show fine detail in the hair on the real coin
    Gold arrows show sharp lettering on the real coin and fat lettering on the fake.
    There are so many OBVIOUS sign that this is a fake it is sad. But as a collector who values this forum I 1) want to educate my fellow collectors if I can 2) use this space productively and in the spirit of the hobby and 3) get rid of at least one of the 3 consecutive postings reading "1893 S, Silver Dollar, Morgan.
    My diagnosis is that the pictured Fake is in fact a silver round, that is a 1 ounce silver token.

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  7. JTO
    The "journals" are worse not better.  The registry is also worse and I have cut my time there by 80% (maybe a good thing?)  NGC has taken the "high road" out of town and left us, the collectors, behind.  Why do I have to go to page 4 to find my U.S. coins?  The time is ripe for a Third, Third party to open a user friendly Registry for us "the collector" that serve as the fuel for the hobby.  Maybe the ANA, hint , hint...
    A good registry is like a virtual Dansco or Whitman album, with holes to fill and eventually the joy of completing a set.  This is where NGC had a huge advantage toward participation.  Most serious collector have a mix of PCGS and NGC.  In auctions of US coins, currently, the ratio of PCGS coins to NGC is about 3 to 4 to 1 .  For world coin auctions it is reversed with NGC dominating by up to 10:1. That maybe why NGC is putting the world coins in front of U.S. on their Registry.   Is NGC giving up on the U.S. market?
    NGC IF YOU IGNORE U.S. COLLECTORS WE WILL GO AWAY!!!
    Here is what I see as a solution, after having several PCGS coins returned that would not cross ( AFTER NGC GOT THE GRADING FEE) I had an idea.  If NGC is so much purer and dedicated to truth and honesty then here is an idea:
    Submit PCGS coins to NGC to cross (full fee) or just to grade (like the GSA coins.)  These coins have no guarantee from NGC if they are left in the PCGS holder, they just get a grade.  Because they are still in the PCGS holder they:
    1) Don't get included in the NGC population report
    2) The NGC grade is affixed to the PCGS holder so the coin can be used in the NGC registry
    3) NGC has no liability as they do not provide a guarantee (as stated in the small print by NGC on both GSA and Ancient coins)
    4) If the coin is sent in for only an NGC grade but not gross over (the GSA treatment by request) the fee could be reduced (again NGC is not providing a guarantee)
    (About the guarantee, most of you already know all of this but for those that don't, here it is.)The guarantee is what you pay for.  Yes they are guaranteeing the grade in an NGC holder but the big money is in the guarantee the the coin is not a counterfeit.  PCGS has certified at least 2 counterfeit coins that they placed into their holders within the last two years.   If a person buys that coin, in the original PCGS holder without evidence of tampering, they can go to PCGS and expect to be reimbursed for their loss (the fair market value of the coin.)  The grade guarantee is much more difficult to "prove" unless it is a "Red" copper that has turned brown, which is why they don't guarantee color on copper anymore.
    This would bring me back to NGC and I would be willing to pay to get my PCGS coins on the NGC registry (which I liked better before).
    But it is hard to look at a Liberty V in a PCGS MS-66 holder that NGC would not cross and then resubmit to cross at MS-65 or 64,  Would you do it?
     
    John
  8. JTO

    I am at #7 Overall and no idea how I got here

    By JTO,


    Registry and NGC
    I have been collecting since I was 8 years old and turn 61 in 2 weeks.  I had the usual starts and stops but for the most part my collecting was always there for me.  I got more serious about a few series in 2013 when I got a new job and needed to escape to my coins.  By way of back ground I am a Trauma Surgeon and have seen suffering, death and dying on a daily basis.  Coins have ben my escape, my safe place, after God it is were I go for peace (this sounds weak and whiny but it is what it is.)  My first passion is as a type collector of pre-1964 US coins.  My set is not number 1 nor will it be but respectable at number 4 currently (https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/90973/).  I got interested in putting together a set of nice Liberty Standing Quarters (SLQ) in an album, and did, but along the way picked up certified coins that I broke out for the album and the some that I just could not break out... Thus started my SLQ registry set (https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/138325/) at a less respectable #12.  With this set I have sought eye appeal and full heads (holder designated or not) over grade numbers and points.  i.e. my 1919-D is a 58 FH that I replaced a 64 flat head with.  And I love the 20 Cent series, short and sweet.  I spent 7 years chasing my 1877 with cameo appearance, now #3 (https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/185444/).
    My point is that the registry Mark Salzberg and the great staff of the NGC registry have reenabled my passion of albums, both the cardboard and the virtual (registry.)   The NGC Registry is like a virtual Dansco or Whitman or Intercept Shield album.  I find that for me the coin is only fully in the NGC Virtual album (registry) once I have photographed it and placed a cropped photo in the set on which I am working.  The decision to again accept PCGS in addition to NGC makes NGC in general and Mark Salzberg in particular the bigger and better grading company, registry and man/collector.  My main point is that with 53 years of collecting NGC has been instrumental in helping me to keep collecting and my wits about me. Thank you.
    Thank You Mark ,Thank You Registry staff and Thank You NGC for being inclusive (not PCG exclusive) and fostering our great hobby.
    How did I get to # 7, very slowly with no goal to get there.
     
    John
     
     
     


     

  9. JTO

    A rare coin

    By JTO,

    Number 1 of my top 10 rare coins... in no particular order.
    I have previously posted about how freely the word RARE is used about particular coins when they come to auction. To me if there are 20 examples of a particular (rare) coin in a single auction it really begs the question: How do they define rare? One of the most glaring examples of this is also a coin many of us dreamed of owning as a kid and a few of us were lucky enough to find in pocket change: The 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent.
    The 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent is frequently, I mean really frequently, offered at auction with the catalog author waxing on about how the coin is a lustrous example of the key date of the Lincoln series. This drives me crazy. On the platinum night there may be 4 examples in MS-65 Red or better. Then in the live auction there are between 10 and 20 grading from AU-55 up to MS-65 and in the subsequent automated auction there will be another 8-15 graded from Good up to a plethora of problem coins. Its not necessary to single out the 1909-S VDB for all this abuse, as the 1877 Indian Cent fit the same profile almost identically, with the exception that the grades for each auction are slightly lower. These are not rare coins they are simply expensive coins. If you have enough money you need not wait longer than the next auction at your disposal.
    So with all that negative commentary what do I suggest IS a rare coin? First, a disclaimer: as a fan of the New Orleans Mint, and since that is a focus of my collecting, I may be over emphasizing coins from New Orleans. But, that said, however about 1838-O no stars half-dime. Although there appear to be as many as 150 that have made it problem free into slabs, when you take into account all of the re-submissions, the actual number of coins is probably closer to 80 problem free, gradable examples.
    I literally spent years waiting for an affordable and problem free example to come to market. I would regularly check Heritage, Collectors Corner and occasionally even eBay. Sure I could have gone to Legend Numismatics for the single MS-66 example but it is priced that well over 60,000 dollars. When the pictured example showed up on the Internet I tracked it back to the Liberty Coin website and snatched it up for ~$1000 dollars below recent auction archive results.
    This coin, because of its rarity, poses a number of challenges both for the dealer and collector. If you walk up to a dealers table and (as I attempted once) grandiosely open your offer with I am willing to pay full Red Book, i.e. retail value, you will likely be treated to a round of laughter and told you should go by the coin from the Red Book. The problem is, that the coin comes to auction or sale so infrequently that it is difficult to track its actual value. I was fortunate that the folks at Liberty Coin did not go to the Heritage website to do an auction archive search on the coin. Because I had been searching for an 1838-O no stars Half--Dime I was up to date on the auction results and lucked out on the price.
    Sorry for the rambling post. I was just trying to share a bit of my perspective and passion.
     
    Thank you for reading,
    John

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  10. JTO
    What a time the THREE GSA employees had going through and classifying all of those CC dollars.
    First, I love the "Soft Packs" because they remind me of my youth when I collected the 1971-73 40% silver soft packs. The 40% Ikes were like a time warp back to the days when you could collect actual Silver, Silver dollars. I must have close to fifty of the various blue packs now. Yes that may cross the line from collecting and move in to hoarding. But many of the soft packs I have come by when buying a complete collection intact and then I just kept the soft packs.
    For the CC soft packs, the person (one of only three people) responsible for sorting all the GSA... Government Services Administration... looked at this coin and saw something that made her or him think that the coin had circulated. Frequently the characteristic that tipped the sorter's opinion of the coins grade or condition to the Circulated soft pack and not in the Un-Circulated, Black Hard Pack was toning. The toning came from the canvas bags, the vault environment or the coins 100 years of conditions that the coins were in prior to the big GSA distribution.
    In those days (the 60's and early 70's) the top grade was BU ... brilliant un-circulated and any toning was by definition not brilliant. Many coins fell prey to us collectors trying to make beautiful naturally toned coins brilliant. Alas, this coin escaped with just a sneer as to its grade but no damage from someone like me attempting to make it Brilliant.
    Not an expensive coin, not a rare coin but for me a fun coin. And after all isn't that what our Hobby is about?
     
    John

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  11. JTO
    I have always had my eye on reaching 1 million points but never really thought I would get there.
    I have a strong predilection for New Orleans coinage. So it seems fitting that the coin the put me over 1 million point mark was a New Orleans issue. I have been looking for this coin in and circulated condition for the past 8-10 years. After careful analysis of auction records there are probably less than 20 truly Mint State examples in the market. Many have come to the auction block multiple times; they have had hammer prices for MS-62 examples range from $4500 to > $10, 000.
    The 1838--O half dime was, potentially, the very first circulating coin to be produced by the new Branch Mint in New Orleans. For whatever reason, it appears that unlike many other first issue coins, this one was not saved or set aside. This may be because concurrently there was the 1838--O dime. It had both a larger mintage as well as being the larger coin. Because the designs are essentially identical it might of made sense to save the dime and not worry about saving any examples of the half dime.
    Regardless of the reason the 1838-O half dime is rare in any grade but particularly uncommon in Mint State condition. I've lost this coin at auction more times and I care to remember, has the bidding rose above my comfort zone. This time I put in my bid on Heritage Live and walked away for the computer. When I could wait no longer I found that not only had I won the coin but for the reserve, that was less that the last time it changed hands. I have added it to my custom New Orleans issue type set. And, by adding it to my feeble half dime set it bumped my overall point total over the 1 Mil mark.
    As a self-admitted coin nerd I know that this must seem pretty sad that something like this would register and an actual milestone for me. But there you have it in all my nerd glory and what a coin!

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  12. JTO
    PCGS does it again making their "New" holder Worse than their old ones.
    Sometimes I wonder if the people at PCGS are just mean spirited, greedy or maybe both. The new PCGS holders which were introduced a few months ago have added security feature on the bottom of the slab. This consists of a series of capital letters. Presumably to accommodate this feature they made their slabs fatter. Okay...
    Also, NGC lead the collecting community with the edge view slab and I must say that I strongly prefer it to the old style were the edges are covered by plastic. You may notice that the new PCGS slabs no longer have this feature. Or maybe if you paid a premium you can get it. Either way...come on.
    What a surprise, the new PCGS slabs no longer fit in the NGC plastic slab boxes. Since this is one of the primary ways that I store my slabs it has presented me with a bit of the dilemma. They do fit into the intercept shield cardboard box lined with copper to reduce environmental deterioration (corrosion/oxidation). I have a large number of these boxes but after about 5 years the protection becomes exhausted as the Copper molecules in the lining are bound to oxygen. Also the NGC boxes are more space efficient and generally nicer to deal with.
    Granted NGC had a good thing going by selling their boxes as the only high quality all plastic boxes that fit PCGS, NCG, ICG and ANACS. That is now over.
    This appears to one collector as one more step in the war between NGC and PCGS that will lead to complete separation and force collectors to choose one or the other. So far NGC, in my opinion, has taken the high road. They include PCGS coins in the NGC registry (exclusive of world coins). There boxes accommodated all relevant slabs, including PCGS.
    Look at the freedoms and liberties we have given up in the name of security since 9-11-2001. No I'm not saying that something is trivial as coin collecting is in anyway on par with the terrorist attacks on New York. But here is PCGS "upgrading" there slab for "security" reasons in leaving me with a slab lab of lesser quality that doesn't fit into my system. On the whole when put in the perspective of the twin towers my concern is trivial. The just like the twin towers it pisses me off.

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  13. JTO

    Rare 1877 Indian Cent, Not

    By JTO,

    This coin is anything but rare, just check out any major auction.
    This coin was brought from Rick Snow. It got the PS designation but only, in my opinion, because of the date. This coin is poorly struck on the its right side, including the date and AMERICA on the obverse and the bow and arrows on the reverse. The fact that I bought it means the only person I really have to complain about is myself. I chose the coin. With that said I am a bit tired of hearing that this is the toughest issue of the Indian series to obtain. This date is anything but rare. Because of the value, er price, even in low grades, every auction has multitudes of 1877s. The only difficulty in obtaining a nice one is the depth of your bank account.
     
     
     
     
     
    Compare this to the 1859 1c proof cameo Indian that I waited years to find a nice example with true cameo contrast. The 1859 is a rare coin. The 1877 is a pedestrian coin that costs and arm and leg.

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  14. JTO
    Here for modern coins that, I think, have investment potential. Shhh don't tell though.
    This is a continuation of the thread that was started about a week ago. We were talking about ordering mint sets and sending in a handful of coins to try to get a few top population for grade. If you order 10 mint sets (~$30 per set with shipping) that's $300. If you submit 2 coins from each set that will add on an additional $15 per coin minimum, that adds an additional $300. So we are up to $600.
    For just a little bit more you could by a mint state First Spouse gold coin. I think these are the real sleepers of the modern commemorative series. Consider that several so far have had mintage numbers under 2000!!! Not 2 billion, 200 million, 2 million but 2 thousand. The grey sheet on the MS L. Garfield first spouse is 1425 bid, 1525 ask. For VanBuren's Liberty its roughly $1100 mint state or proof.
    Time will tell...
    JTO

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  15. JTO
    Another "Problem Coin"
    Here is another "problem coin". I think that the picture is worth a thousand details or adjectives. If I had an unlimited budget I would buy all mint state and ultra cameo coins. But if reality was not an issue I would just go back in time and get one from Mr Rittenhouse at the mint hot off the screw press. Since neither of these is going to happen I like my problem coins and have some fun wondering about just where they have been and what they have done to get in to such trouble?

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  16. JTO
    I just got the coin and noticed the doubling on STATES OF AMERICA.
    This looks like strike doubling to me. Primarily due to the linear direction of the doubling rather than rotational. The doubling is toward the 12 o'clock position rather than to the left of each letter. What do you all think?

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  17. JTO

    What grade is this coin?

    By JTO,

    I bought this coin and I wanted your opinion: what numerical grade would you give (1-70 Sheldon Scale).
    This coin is certified by NGC (not a Problem, Details, or No Grade coin). The grade assigned puzzles me and I would be interested in the collective wisdom of the group. I will post the grade, photo of the coin in holder, once I give you all a chance to vote on the grade you would assign as a grader for NGC or PCGS. If you think that the grade would be different between the two major services I would be interested in your opinion on that as well.
    Thank you for looking and please vote if you have an opinion.
    John

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  18. JTO
    1934-S S$1 in MS-65 or should it be 64.
    I must admit that the coin might have graded a 64 if it were a Philadelphia issue. I think that the key or semi key dates get a slight "benefit of the doubt" so that the grading services can keep them their holders. This, i my opinion is more common with the Heritage-PCGS connection but I could be wrong... what do you all think?

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  19. JTO
    I finally found an acceptable 1860 P $5 half eagle to add to my 1860 mint set.  Oddly the 1860 D (Georgia) issue if far more available.  By mintage figures for the two issues, ~20k vs.~15k, are comparable.  The Charlotte is in the 15K range and rarely seen while the San Francisco is at 21k specimens minted and a tough find.  Here is my new addition...

    John

  20. JTO
    I bought a set of $2.5 Indians in a capital plastics holder where they have been in my bank until now...
    I agreed to buy a set for 10K form a "friend" who had bought them from an estate. When it came time to do the deal, I looked at the coins and what the $%#&*! I said I remembered them in a black holder and in better shape. Now I find out that there were 2 sets and the first set, the one that got me worked up, he said had already sold. I was not happy. The second set was not at all like the first. Each coin in the first set had had rich luster, so I remember... The second looked about AU at first glance. I offered 7K and he came back with 7.5K. It was housed in a BLUE capital plastics holder and I had to try to grade the coins on the fly. All I really focused on was the 11D. It had the wire rim that is diagnostic of the real deal so I was okay there and look to be a AU-58 or MS-61 or 62. Now almost 10 years later I finally decided to find out how I had done with my pig in a poke. I took all the coins to the Dallas ANA for NGC to grade but only PCGS was doing "on-site" grading, so I submitted the 11-D and 14 to PCGS and sent the rest to NGC. I guess it was not a bad deal after all.
    To see the entire set go to http://coins.www.collectors-society.com/registry/coins/SetListing.aspx?PeopleSetID=188559
    I had a total of 5 out of 15 come back "improperly cleaned" and after careful review I actually agree with 4 of those 5. the 5th coin will go to PCGS or I will just sell it raw.
    Here is the run downof the original 15 coins is submitted:
    1908 AU "improperly cleaned"
    1909 AU "improperly cleaned"
    1910 MS--62
    1911 MS--61
    1911--D MS--61 (PCGS)
    1912 AU "improperly cleaned"
    1913 AU--58
    1914 AU--58 (PCGS)
    1914--D AU "improperly cleaned"
    1915 MS--62
    1925--D MS--62
    1926 Unc "improperly cleaned"
    1927 MS--63
    1928 MS--64+ (of course the most common date)
    1929 MS--62
    What does the term "buying a pig in a poke" refer to? The word poke means bag and if I am not mistaken, the phrase is English and refers to the open markets were one could by a piglet in an unopened bag. The term came to connote buying something without knowing what you're getting because crooked farmers would substitute a cat or dog which had little or no value as consumable meat for the pig.

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  21. JTO

    Photo Take II

    By JTO,

    I have tried for years to crop circles, that is Coins...
    Here is the corrected version of the previous photo. I have corrected the die rotation. The coin was slightly rotated clockwise obverse ~1.7 degrees. This did not account for the full reverse counterclockwise rotation of 7.2 degrees.
    17601.TIF
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  22. JTO
    Which coin would you pick?
    I paid a bit of a premium price for this coin that, unfortunately, happened to be in a PCGS holder with a CAC sticker. These slabs attract the wrong kind of bidder... the investor. (I am of course joking, kind of). After writing about, "Problem Coins", the thread went to the question of what a person is buying: the coin or the slab? I think when it comes to these better type coins or rare date coins, IN GENERAL, you get more coin for your money for a coin in a NGC slab. It seems to me that the investors like the PCGS coins especially if they are CAC sticker-ed. I bought this one because of the nice creamy original look. There was an NGC 1874 Arrows 50c in a 64 holder for less. In this case the 64 coin may have had slightly better surfaces (technical grading) but it was blotchy and had dirt in the recesses. I bought the coin I liked better and am happy with it, I just wonder what the prices would have been if the coins were in opposite holders. Maybe I am too cynical and the other bidders were all bidding just on the looks of the coin like me. I will never know. Which coin would you pick? (the left is the 63 and the one on the right is the 64)

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  23. JTO

    Problem Coins II Continued

    By JTO,

    Here is a my problem VF Details (3043 pt) next to a current auction Problem Free Pr-1(4416) pick one
    Sorry for the formatting flaw and typos in the last message. Here I think a (or 4) pictures are worth a thousand words.

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  24. JTO
    I have tried for years to crop circles, that is Coins...
    Finally I have got cropping the circular coin down. To those of you who are Photoshop savvy this is dumb as dirt, but I just could not get my programs to do the job. All computer/digital picture are saved in pixels which are square. So cropping a square is easy but a circle is another issue. I tried to search on line a couple of years ago and got a ton of hits on "crop circles"... like aliens and corn fields. But I finally got the real Photoshop and puttered a bit and voila. I have a long way to go to get to the quality of some of you but this is a start.
    17599.TIF
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  25. JTO
    The 1839-O half-dollar was the first minted in New Orleans and not Philadelphia!
    How could I forget the first New Orleans half-dollar. This has always been a favorite of mine. Although many reference books describe the first New Orleans half-dollar as being one of the few 1838 proof issues, current research suggests most if not all, most likely all, were minted in Philadelphia. This has to do with the dye characteristics and the proof quality. As for the re-punched mint mark it turns out this is the more common of the varieties and as such carries no premium. The single punched mint mark is less common but I don't think it commands a premium. This coin is also a hard to track down, regardless of RPM or not, as most have found homes with collectors such as me to appreciate them greatly for what they are. This coin is just another fascinating, in my opinion, addition to the New Orleans type story. If my posts are excessive please leave comments and I will tone them down.
     
     
     
    John

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