Mokiechan

I think the Key point is the initial value of the coin and how much it degrades due to mounting, or cleaning, or etc.   If the gold coin is simply a bullion coin to begin with, and not a rare or collectible date, then it is only worth its melt value regardless of its improper handling.  On the other hand, if it is a rare or collectible date, then those points made by Just Bob and Coin Buf are completely accurate.

I have always had good dealings with MCM, glad to have you aboard, Ashley.

I have always had good dealings with MCM, glad to have you aboard, Ashley.

LOL, I am not VKURTB and would not even attempt to infringe upon his numerous areas of expertise.

LOL, I am not VKURTB and would not even attempt to infringe upon his numerous areas of expertise.

We should all listen to VKURTB, he is a self-certified expert on all things numismatic.  Heck, he is probably an expert on all things inanimate and animate.   

So you've never upgraded a coin in your collection?  If you did, then that preceding coin was a Hole filler even if you did not intend it to be at the time of your initial purchase. 

Wizard is a great company, they donated 120 one-a-year 1909-2009 Lincoln Folders to the Pennsylvania Association of Numismatics for their KidZone at cost.  Saving us well over $200.  I personally buy quite a few supplies from them.

I agree with p-f's rather blunt, but IMO accurate, definition. I also agree with your statement. I just upgraded a DB 10c from 8 to 15. Transaction cost will be at least 10-20% no doubt (GC has it). The 8 was an unintended hole filler, and was the result of impatience. Not the first time nor probably the last time that I'll make that mistake. I do admire collectors who bide their time to find just the right coin. Not my nature, I look for a satisfactory coin depending of course on scarcity,  and I'm too damned old now to take the most rational path to completing my objectives. 

Great replies and thoughts on this subject, thanks to all who have replied.  At one time I think the use of hole fillers was more accepted and used more widely; however the internet has made finding coins far easier than in the mail order days in years past.  And biased on my observations and discussions with collectors in general it seems that a high percentage of 20th century US coin collectors are less likely to buy a hole filler, which seems to correlate with the relative ease that many coins of that time can be found.  Conversely those who collect pre 20th century US, world, tokens, and medals are more willing to use a hole filler due to lack of availability and cost constraints; so it does seem that what a collector choses to collect may influence the decision to some degree.

To me, a hole filler is a coin added to a set but meant only as a temporary expedient until you can find and/or afford the coin you want to become a permanent part of your set.

Absolutely looks cleaned to me. 

I am with Mohawk on this, although there are different finishes for both the ASE and Maple Leaf collectors, it is becoming too much and the market is starting to yawn.  This reminds of my days pursuing comic books when all of a sudden DC and Marvel decided to maximize their profits by placing different covers on the same issue of comic, in some cases, over 10 different covers for the same exact content.  At first they were red hot but a year later and to this day, they are worth zero premium over a regular issue with a single cover.  The Canadian issue with different packaging (being the only difference) might do better since they only made 10,000 but in the end, they will not become investment grade material.  My rule for all US Issues of the last 10 years, wait a year and pick it up for half price. 

They probably thought it was a rare "Zombie Jefferson" variety.
It does favor Alice Cooper a little bit.

Maybe NGC had a "Slab Your Pocket Change For Free" event at the National Money Show.  LOL

I would LOVE to see that whole slab. 

Fortunately, we don't have anyone here who would be that ridiculous, especially since people bringing us junk coins they suppose to be rare errors always heed the collective PMD wisdom we offer.

Oh, wait.

Maybe NGC had a "Slab Your Pocket Change For Free" event at the National Money Show.  LOL

Oh yeah......and more ridiculous ASE's.  I'm waiting for the ASE that is a reverse proof that glows in the dark, lets you check your email with its packaging and has an O/CC mint mark.

Hi Dr. S
First off, welcome to the forum!  As for W quarters having investment potential, I'd say that they do not have long term investment potential.  There are a few reasons for this.  The first one, you already brought up...it's not like the ATB quarters are a widely collected, popular series.  They're not and these W quarters are highly unlikely to change that.  So the long term demand scenario looks rather bleak for these coins and much of what determines the value of a coin is the demand for it.  Higher demand, higher price.  Secondly, 2 million isn't that low of a mintage.  There are some of the S mint business strike coins that have mintages below 2 million and some of the silver proofs have mintages well below that point and they aren't particularly valuable coins.  These coins are hot right now because they're being hyped up and because of what I call the "fad factor", meaning that they're the hot new thing and some people need to have the hot new thing right now.  Don't buy into the hype on this one.
I hope that this helps!
~Tom

I have got to ask.  Have you had the crystal ball for a while and just needed to find out about the odd-colored Cent or did you recently obtain the crystal ball and also decided you needed to find out about the odd-colored Cent?   In my mind, an intact Crystal Ball with a Real Cent embedded might be worth a few dollars, a Broken Crystal Ball with either a fake Cent or real Cent is worth about a Cent.

I am with Mohawk on this, although there are different finishes for both the ASE and Maple Leaf collectors, it is becoming too much and the market is starting to yawn.  This reminds of my days pursuing comic books when all of a sudden DC and Marvel decided to maximize their profits by placing different covers on the same issue of comic, in some cases, over 10 different covers for the same exact content.  At first they were red hot but a year later and to this day, they are worth zero premium over a regular issue with a single cover.  The Canadian issue with different packaging (being the only difference) might do better since they only made 10,000 but in the end, they will not become investment grade material.  My rule for all US Issues of the last 10 years, wait a year and pick it up for half price. 

That's a great comparison, Mokie and I agree with every point you've made.  Completist ASE collectors now have to acquire five ASEs this year.  I remember when I first got going in coins again in 1999, it was two: the regular bullion strike and the proof from Philadelphia.  Now it's five: two regular proofs, one W and one S, the bullion strike, the burnished and now this goofy thing.  And then there's the Maple Leaf and that's a whole other issue, as we know.  I think this is going to crash and crash hard eventually.  If I were an ASE collector now, I'd say screw them all aside from the Burnished series.......those are the sleepers and the ones that actually have some upward potential, as you aptly pointed out in your Journal.  I think that, sadly, the Burnished issue is the one that gets ignored when another gimmick ASE comes out, but they're arguably the most beautiful version of the coin.  There was a time when collectors hated the Sandblast and Satin proof US Gold coins from the early 20th Century, mostly in their era of issuance....now they're beloved by US collectors and command amazing premiums.  Though the Burnished ASE's get the least love of the whole ASE lot now, they could have their day in the future as the Sandblast and Satin proof US gold coins have.  I'm not saying that the Burnished ASE series will ever reach those heights, but if they do have their day......they're going to move up in value considerably.

I am with Mohawk on this, although there are different finishes for both the ASE and Maple Leaf collectors, it is becoming too much and the market is starting to yawn.  This reminds of my days pursuing comic books when all of a sudden DC and Marvel decided to maximize their profits by placing different covers on the same issue of comic, in some cases, over 10 different covers for the same exact content.  At first they were red hot but a year later and to this day, they are worth zero premium over a regular issue with a single cover.  The Canadian issue with different packaging (being the only difference) might do better since they only made 10,000 but in the end, they will not become investment grade material.  My rule for all US Issues of the last 10 years, wait a year and pick it up for half price. 

I have pocket change that accidently stays in my pocket through a wash cycle and come out absolutely dazzling with brightness. Of course that's dangerous for a valuable coin as there probably lots of hairlines caused by the agitation, etc.   I'm going to experiment with a dirty but relatively valueless coin and see if placing the coin in the laundry, protected from too much agitation, maybe gentle cycle.  What will it look like at the end of the washing?  I will place it in a pants pocket to further reduce its movement.  I have a very ugly, very common, very bullion value only Peace Dollar, just right for this experiment.