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1899 Morgan NGC PF69 @ Heritage

Started by Dwaine,

39 posts in this topic

Broc Mitchell

Broc Mitchell

Posted
Posted

I would want to see that coin re-evaluated and reslabbed, I would imagine it is no longer covered under the grade guarantee as per the "no guarantees for older slabs" to paraphrase NGC.

 

What are the odds it could be resubmitted raw and get a 69 again? Or dipped and given a PF-70 First Strike!

 

-Broc

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Broc Mitchell

Broc Mitchell

Posted
Posted

I just double checked, I guess I needed to re-read the guarantee, only copper, bronze and nickel coins are subject to the exception, silver and gold are guaranteed across the board unless tampered with.

 

-Broc

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
Heck, I needed to re-read it too, since I didn't know that nickel coinage was included. (thumbs u

 

From NGC's website:

 

WARNING: THIS GUARANTEE IS LIMITED.

 

The NGC Guarantee does not apply to copper, bronze or copper nickel coins graded by NGC prior to April 1, 2000.

 

To the extent that the NGC Guarantee applies to copper, bronze, or copper nickel coins, the NGC Guarantee expires with respect to such coin(s) on the ten year anniversary of the date of encapsulation by NGC..............

 

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MunkyMan95

MunkyMan95

Posted
Posted
Man that even looks PL. PCGS value guide doesn't even show a value past PF67 for proof Morgans!

 

I would hope that it would look "PL." After all, it is a Proof coin meh

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bsshog40

bsshog40

Posted
Posted
Man that even looks PL. PCGS value guide doesn't even show a value past PF67 for proof Morgans!

 

I would hope that it would look "PL." After all, it is a Proof coin meh

 

 

doh! That's where I was looking to, just a dumb statement before brain engaged. lol

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jesbroken

jesbroken

Posted
Posted

That's OK Bobby, we understand. I do not believe I have ever seen a 69 graded Morgan before, proof or business strike. That is beautiful and I must guess that the four scratches across the D are in the plastic holder and not the coin. Surely, that is the case. I would be afraid of what this coin will sell for.

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Dwaine

Dwaine

Posted
  • Author
Posted

There are actually quite a few other coins already in the 5 digit price range and I think one or two in the six digit range.

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UScoinrunner88-migration

UScoinrunner88-migration

Posted
Posted

I'm going to seem pretty harsh to the crowd that spoke before me, but that's one POS PF69 Morgan if I ever did see one.

 

Lets start with the fingerprint on the obverse around 5 O'clock. If I were in a blind test to guess what I would grade this Morgan, from this picture, I would 68- it. But that's just me.

 

Let's move on to the picture, taken by Heritage, in order to auction it off. If I were assigned to take a picture of this such coin, I would want to take the best possible picture I can. That picture is AWEFUL for the type of coin they are auctioning. Ok, we know about the fingerprint, but geeez, you have part of the camera in the upper-right field of the reverse and it doesn't even match with the obverse. There's a streak from 7-9 on the obverse on the field, which might be on the holder, but it's too distracting. Just the whole balance of the picture is off.

I'm glad NGC graded this coin, because PCGS wouldn't do better than a 68, there's just too many marks.

 

 

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UScoinrunner88-migration

UScoinrunner88-migration

Posted
Posted

Just look at the ratio of 69/70 SAE's from NGC and PCGS. Then you can realize that NGC grades SOOOO many more 70's than PCGS does. Thus, NGC grades coins much more loosely than PCGS does.

 

Another check is looking at the Jules Reiver Pedigreed coins slabbed by NGC. NGC outrageously over exaggerates the grades on these coins that it's not even funny. NGC is just not as reliable a grading service for BIG grade coins.

 

These are just a couple comparisons.

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MAULEMALL

MAULEMALL

Posted
Posted
Just look at the ratio of 69/70 SAE's from NGC and PCGS. Then you can realize that NGC grades SOOOO many more 70's than PCGS does. Thus, NGC grades coins much more loosely than PCGS does.

 

Another check is looking at the Jules Reiver Pedigreed coins slabbed by NGC. NGC outrageously over exaggerates the grades on these coins that it's not even funny. NGC is just not as reliable a grading service for BIG grade coins.

 

These are just a couple comparisons.

And exactly how many coins has NGC graded and How many coins has pcgs graded...

 

Percentage wise you may be Very Wrong.

 

 

I know for a fact that pcgs Has graded only a few 2006 W SAE's as MS70..But the reason for that is that thier ability to see into the future of those coins allowed them to see that they ALL would milk spot and that they would no longer be 70's...

They weren't gradeing the coin... They were grading it's future..

 

Keep your kool aid to a minnimum and you may learn something.

 

As it stands now you have come off as rather foolish.:popcorn:

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TomB

TomB

Posted
Posted
Just look at the ratio of 69/70 SAE's from NGC and PCGS. Then you can realize that NGC grades SOOOO many more 70's than PCGS does. Thus, NGC grades coins much more loosely than PCGS does.

 

Another check is looking at the Jules Reiver Pedigreed coins slabbed by NGC. NGC outrageously over exaggerates the grades on these coins that it's not even funny. NGC is just not as reliable a grading service for BIG grade coins.

 

These are just a couple comparisons.

It's fine to disagree with the grade of a coin. However, in my opinion, broad conclusions such as the above appear to be based more upon bias than upon education.

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WinstonWare

WinstonWare

Posted
Posted
Just look at the ratio of 69/70 SAE's from NGC and PCGS. Then you can realize that NGC grades SOOOO many more 70's than PCGS does. Thus, NGC grades coins much more loosely than PCGS does.

 

Another check is looking at the Jules Reiver Pedigreed coins slabbed by NGC. NGC outrageously over exaggerates the grades on these coins that it's not even funny. NGC is just not as reliable a grading service for BIG grade coins.

 

These are just a couple comparisons.

It's fine to disagree with the grade of a coin. However, in my opinion, broad conclusions such as the above appear to be based more upon bias than upon education.

 

Agree with Tom again....Damn!

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UScoinrunner88-migration

UScoinrunner88-migration

Posted
Posted

MM, this wasn't a bashing of NGC, just shedding light on this reality. I'm just stating a point that when you look at the stats, NGC consistantly grades higher than PCGS does. Playing the crackout game proves this approximately 7 out of 10 times (these are my results). Now, I can't call PCGS perfect either, but NGC is just less of a saint for grading coins. Grade-flation has caused these two grading services to become hot-headed about the grades they dish out, but NGC seems to just take it too far.

 

I don't know where you, personally, come off saying I need to learing anything on this subject.

 

Also.....

 

I believe that the only thing that is foolish is ignorance.

Buy the coin and not the slab! If one person believes this coin is a 69, then they will pay 69 money for it, but if someone believes it is a 68, then they will not pay 69 money for the coin. Will the person who believes this coin is a 68, win(?), not likely since this will be such a hot item when on the block and grab a lot of attention.

 

Now who's coming off as foolish and needs to learn something?

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ziggy29

ziggy29

Posted
Posted
MM, this wasn't a bashing of NGC, just shedding light on this reality. I'm just stating a point that when you look at the stats, NGC consistantly grades higher than PCGS does. Playing the crackout game proves this approximately 7 out of 10 times (these are my results). Now, I can't call PCGS perfect either, but NGC is just less of a saint for grading coins. Grade-flation has caused these two grading services to become hot-headed about the grades they dish out, but NGC seems to just take it too far.

I'm willing to grant this to a point. But the problem is that when non-PCGS services get it right, they tend to get crossed over to PCGS. When they get it wrong, the coins remain in their terminal overgraded tomb.

 

The net result, IMO, is that we perceive that the others like NGC, ANACS and ICG "get it wrong" a LOT more often...because when they get it right, the coins often don't remain in their holders.

 

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UScoinrunner88-migration

UScoinrunner88-migration

Posted
Posted

I'm willing to grant this to a point. But the problem is that when non-PCGS services get it right, they tend to get crossed over to PCGS. When they get it wrong, the coins remain in their terminal overgraded tomb.

 

The net result, IMO, is that we perceive that the others like NGC, ANACS and ICG "get it wrong" a LOT more often...because when they get it right, the coins often don't remain in their holders.

 

I like this point a lot.

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bsshog40

bsshog40

Posted
Posted

Man I tell ya, this started out as just watching a very nice and rare proof Morgan to someone having to debate and argue over it's graded slab. None of you have the coin in hand but yet you seem to be an expert of what it should be graded instead of realizing what it is graded. Time and time again members here have posted pics of coins for people to grade. The grades are guesses. Everyone here on this forum knows that you cannot accurately grade a coin from pictures. If this was the case, we'd be sending pics of our coins to the TPG's and them sending us graded slabs to put them in. I would just like to sit back and watch the auction.

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rrantique

rrantique

Posted
Posted

I'm still trying to figure out how you can compare a 19th century high graded Proof to todays ASE's. Total population combined for both TPG's is 18 compared to a gazillion ASE's23_33_7.gif

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