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The "Consortium"

Started by Connecticoin,

226 posts in this topic

jom

jom

Posted
Posted
I may not be an expert, but you are no mathematician. It is either 12 times the price guide or 1200% of the price guide. "1200% times the price guide" would be $14,700.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine, and the buyer of said coin is entitled to his. Many collectors of toned coins (myself not among them) choose to pay well in excess of price guide values, and that is a fact. Just because in your narrow Greysheet-driven mind you cannot comprehend it, that does not means that others cannot. It's not my cup of tea, but so long as buyers understand what they are buying, I will not cry foul.

 

Unfortunately, jamming someone with a spotted modern proof gold coin in an ICG-70 holder at twice its real value is unethical, and I would guess that most of the forum would agree with that.

 

I agree. If two KNOWLEDGABLE collectors agree on a price then that's the worth of the coin. Price "guides" mean little especially if you are talking about something unique.

 

jom

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just-john

just-john

Posted
Posted

Price guides are just that a guide made up but the people who want you to think those prices are real .It's the same old thing over and over again with different packaging or look.

The results will be the same for everyone who makes money there will be 5 who lose money.I would like to see price guides guaranty buy back by the people who post them.But that will never happen thats why coins can never or should never be a serious investment.

With the exception of bullion if you already LAND -rental property-IRA-401K-STOCK-BONDS

and a rich wife.

OR spending somebody else money which is usually the case

 

As far as the CAC goes I'll bet if you pay the fee they will look at your coin maybe not pass it but or whatever ------- but they will take your money----

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Houston Investor

Houston Investor

Posted
Posted
I know you consider yourself some kind of self appointed expert Sage but 1200% times the price guide price is overpricing in my view.

 

 

Unfortunately, jamming someone with a spotted modern proof gold coin in an ICG-70 holder at twice its real value is unethical, and I would guess that most of the forum would agree with that.

 

The spotting is on the holder and the lot states that. Again you don't have your facts straight and I dispute your comment about its value. I don't believe you really know what you are talking about - your just on some kind of crusade for CAC. Its a very impressive coin and will make a terrific buy for someone.

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DirtyGoldMan

DirtyGoldMan

Posted
Posted
I know you consider yourself some kind of self appointed expert Sage but 1200% times the price guide price is overpricing in my view.

 

BTW your trying to label me a predator is nothing more than a reflection of your lack of professionalism, and lack of understanding of the truth. Frankly Sir, if it has not become already obvious to the other members here, I think you are a political action person for CAC. As far as your absurd comment about ICG's grading, I dare you to say that to them. ICG is service of high integrity, accurate grading, a quality product, and highly competent graders - I dispute your comment and - its lowball slam at ICG and myself in order to execute your political actions for CAC.

 

lol

 

Are you that clueless? Everyone knows that ICG gives out 70's on moderns like candy at Halloween. Whoever buys the spotted POS in that ebay auction linked above for $399 will get hosed.

 

I know personally quite a few members here, and they know I have no affiliation with the CAC. I am interested in seeing that collectors do not get screwed. I guess we are on opposite sides of that debate, too. $295 for a 2006-S San Francisco $5 Gold Commem - NGC PF 69 UCAM--that's highway robbery!

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MikeInFL

MikeInFL

Posted
Posted

Here's another winner from Creekside Tangible Assets:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/2007-P-Jamestown-Dollar-and-5-Gold-ANACS-MS-70_W0QQitemZ220145937846QQihZ012QQcategoryZ41107QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

 

Two ANACS-graded MS 70 modern commemoratives for $600. Perhaps Parker's just mad because the CAC won't sticker any of the overgraded he pitches as "an investment".

 

Pot, kettle, black...Mike

 

 

 

 

 

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MikeInFL

MikeInFL

Posted
Posted
I don't believe you really know what you are talking about - your just on some kind of crusade for CAC. Its a very impressive coin and will make a terrific buy for someone.

 

I'm not sure which is funnier. That you are arguing the value of an overgraded modern commemorative in ICG plastic, or questioning SageRad's motives. Do you even realize how foolish you look to the rest of us?

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jom

jom

Posted
Posted
I'm not sure which is funnier. That you are arguing the value of an overgraded modern commemorative in ICG plastic, or questioning SageRad's motives. Do you even realize how foolish you look to the rest of us?...

 

Pot, kettle, black.

 

I'm sorry but according to Mark that's suppose to be 5 words or less. lol

 

jom

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Houston Investor

Houston Investor

Posted
Posted
I know you consider yourself some kind of self appointed expert Sage but 1200% times the price guide price is overpricing in my view.

 

BTW your trying to label me a predator is nothing more than a reflection of your lack of professionalism, and lack of understanding of the truth. Frankly Sir, if it has not become already obvious to the other members here, I think you are a political action person for CAC. As far as your absurd comment about ICG's grading, I dare you to say that to them. ICG is service of high integrity, accurate grading, a quality product, and highly competent graders - I dispute your comment and - its lowball slam at ICG and myself in order to execute your political actions for CAC.

 

lol

 

$295 for a 2006-S San Francisco $5 Gold Commem - NGC PF 69 UCAM--that's highway robbery!

 

If anything its probably uderpriced. Its a beautiful coin in gem deep cameo proof - as a matter of fact I believe I have 3 of them. I really like the reverse design, the same as the $5 half eagle but in gem cameo proof - this coin is not some old worn circ thats for sure! People at shows will buy modern world gold before jumping on worn, marked up US Gold in the same dollar range. I would love to put together a set of some of the recent Hong Kong Gold issues. I have handled Canadian Olympic Gold, Korean Olympic Gold, Proof GB Sovereigns, etc. I strongly recommend modern world gold.

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Houston Investor

Houston Investor

Posted
Posted
I don't believe you really know what you are talking about - your just on some kind of crusade for CAC. Its a very impressive coin and will make a terrific buy for someone.

 

I'm not sure which is funnier. That you are arguing the value of an overgraded modern commemorative in ICG plastic, or questioning SageRad's motives. Do you even realize how foolish you look to the rest of us?

 

If I did not think it made the grade, I would not have it in my store. Besides, I price the coin (whether certified or raw), not who's holder it's in. I not only dispute your statement about the coin's grade but in addition your ability to tell the truth. You are the one who is the clown. If you have a problem with ICG then why don't you take it up with them - you won't bc you don't have the guts.

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Houston Investor

Houston Investor

Posted
Posted
Maybe the consortium should be democratic, like we vote for who’s in it for the next 4 years. During that time the elected individuals would be prohibited from selling coins.

 

Sounds like a great idea - especially if it was not made of a more representative pool of the numismatic marketplace.

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Houston Investor

Houston Investor

Posted
Posted
If I did not think it made the grade, I would have it in my store.

 

Probably the first true statement you've made in any forum, saved for future reference.

 

thanks for pointing out the typo - it has been fixed and should have read:

 

If I did not think it made the grade I would not have it in my store.

 

As far as your trying to slam me - your blowing in the wind.

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MikeInFL

MikeInFL

Posted
Posted
If you have a problem with ICG then why don't you take it up with them - you won't bc you don't have the guts.

 

ICG is not in this forum posting lies concerning the CAC and members of this forum. You are.

 

FYI, I bought one ICG coin in my numismatic travels. Here it is:

 

large.jpg

large.jpg

 

It was a cleaned POS sold by a seller similar to yourself. I returned the coin.

 

When and if ICG comes to this forum and trumps their quality of grading, you can bet I'll be the first to call BS. Until then, the you continue to shovel will continue to be seen for what it is -- the drivel of a bottom feeder...Mike

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DirtyGoldMan

DirtyGoldMan

Posted
Posted

BTW your trying to label me a predator is nothing more than a reflection of your lack of professionalism

 

I am a hobbyist, not a numismatic professional, as you claim to be. In my professional life, I am very professional. In my hobby life, I am free to be as I want to be.

 

As far as unprofessional behavior, your pulling out an example of Mark Feld's inventory and decrying that it was overpriced on this forum is one of the most egregious examples of unprofessionalism I have seen in the coin biz. I have never seen a dealer slam another dealer's inventory. It's like one of the Three Unforgivable Curses in Harry Potter. It is just not acceptable. Now, when someone picks over your "inventory" and does the same, you do not like it, do you? lol

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MAULEMALL

MAULEMALL

Posted
Posted
I don't believe you really know what you are talking about - your just on some kind of crusade for CAC. Its a very impressive coin and will make a terrific buy for someone.

 

Do you even realize how foolish you look to the rest of us?

Please define the term "us"..

 

To be completely honest, Until the CAC does something I think that the whole argument is makeing anyone taking part, Pro Or Con , Look Foolish.

 

 

 

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Houston Investor

Houston Investor

Posted
Posted

Sage - I could care less what your think about my inventory. It floats my boat and fits my investment goals so when I am confronted with someone at a show that says "I think this is only a $200 coin" then I ask them if they have one to sell me at that price. In 17 yr on the bourse I can think of only one or two instances when they did. And you know what - I was glad to get the coin(s).

 

My response to him was from being called names in a public forum and yes I will defend myself from any lowlife here that will attack me like that. And I will keep on running that play over and over and over.....I have a lot more that can be dished out where that came from too........let the games begin.

 

 

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jom

jom

Posted
Posted
I have never seen a dealer slam another dealer's inventory.

 

Evidently, you haven't attended many coin shows. lol

 

jom

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MAULEMALL

MAULEMALL

Posted
Posted
I have never seen a dealer slam another dealer's inventory.

 

Evidently, you haven't attended many coin shows. lol

 

jom

 

I have been to them all. I have never seen it in an online public forum.

I am reminded of the old days on RCC..

They would get a little nuts and slam everybody.

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jom

jom

Posted
Posted
I have never seen a dealer slam another dealer's inventory.

 

Evidently, you haven't attended many coin shows. lol

 

jom

 

I have been to them all. I have never seen it in an online public forum.

 

I'm sure you have. I didn't mean to say you hadn't...it was just part of the joke.

 

Anyway, have seen this...on ATS I have for certain. It's odd that it happens here now. I guess every forum gets dragged down eventually. Which is too bad because for the most part this place was better off as "sleep hollow".

 

jom

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted
I'm sorry but I just don't see how this Consortium is going to, all by itself, make coins more costly. The fact is that if collectors (or investors or whoever) decide that this sticker (or whatever it will be) is worth the dollars to spend more, then prices will go up. If not, then no. It's just like what happened with the TPG's. At some point, when all is said and done, the coins will be traded based on what two people (buyer and seller) decide they want in the transaction. No more, no less.

 

If prices start going crazy and people pay idiotic money who's at fault? The TPG's? CAC? C'mon! Collectors and/or investors are. People need to be patient and learn how to VALUE a coin and not base your purchases on what someone ELSE thinks.

 

It's really not that difficult. Geez....

 

jom

Jom, here's why prices will rise. Suppose there are not third-party graders (and no CAC). If you want a coin at an auction, then you must look at it and decide what it is worth. There is one grade (yours) attracting one bid (also yours).

 

Now, introduce third party grading. It has already been looked (by the third party) at to decide what it is worth. Many collectors trust the third party. Therefore, there is one grade (the third-party grade) attacting multiple bids (many people who trust third-party grading). So, third party grading introduces a whole additional population of bidders who are willing to blindly trust a slab's grade.

 

An increased bidding population must introduce increased competition, and higher prices, and that is in fact what has happened over the last twenty years (in my view).

 

Finally, add in the CAC. This is yet another added population of bidders who are not only willing to trust the label, but are willing to increase considerably their sight-unseen bids - that is, are willing to bid even higher on coins they haven't even seen!

 

Inevitiably, this additional increase in competition will lead to yet higher prices.

 

 

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