Cleaned SAE in an NGC holder?

[Revenant]

I purchased a MS69 1987 SAE in an NGC slab the other week and just got it today. I entered it into my registery set and it worked fine. But, I kept looking at it throughout the day and I just couldn't get over that fact that something didn't seem right about this coin, so I checked it out under a 5x magnifier. The slab is fine, it doesn't appear to have been altered, but looking at the coin... it looks like somebody tried to brush it. Now, I thought NGC checked for this kind of thing, and the marks I'm seeing mean what I think they mean then this is pretty blatant! Could I be wrong about this? Could NGC have just missed something that seems pretty clear to someone new to the hobby?

 

I've purchased from this person before and the coin was perfectly fine so I thought I was safe ordering from them again; I suddenly have my doubts. I could return the coin but their shipping fees are non-refundable and those were significant... I'm starting to think I got screwed here...

[jtryka]

While it's certainly possible that NGC erred, it's pure speculation without seeing the coin. Given that you are new to collecting, is it possible that what you are seeing as a sign of cleaning may be the differences in strike characteristics between the years? I collect ASEs by the roll, and I know the coins I bought in the 1990s look a lot different from the ones from the 1980s and the ones from the last few years look even different than those. The relief was lowered in the 1990s, and lately they've been struck with a much more matte frosty appearance than they used to be. If you could post photos that might help too. In the end, if you don't like the coin you should not keep it, either suck it up and return it (losing the delivery costs) or you could send it to NGC for an appearance review. In any case, there is no good reason to keep a coin you don't like!

[Revenant]

While it's certainly possible that NGC erred, it's pure speculation without seeing the coin. Given that you are new to collecting, is it possible that what you are seeing as a sign of cleaning may be the differences in strike characteristics between the years? I collect ASEs by the roll, and I know the coins I bought in the 1990s look a lot different from the ones from the 1980s and the ones from the last few years look even different than those. The relief was lowered in the 1990s, and lately they've been struck with a much more matte frosty appearance than they used to be. If you could post photos that might help too. In the end, if you don't like the coin you should not keep it, either suck it up and return it (losing the delivery costs) or you could send it to NGC for an appearance review. In any case, there is no good reason to keep a coin you don't like!

 

It's not really an issue of not liking the coin (which does look really nice). It's was more that something seemed wierd. That said though, the oldest SAE that I had seen prior to getting this coin was made in 2002, and from what your saying I could just be getting thrown by that. This thing certainly looks nothing like my '02-'07's and those have been my standard for what an SAE should look like.

[bsshog40]

One thing to remember also is that the 2000's and above are satin finish. I'm not to sure what year the satin started, but I have 86, 87, & 90 and these were not satin finish. I don't think below 2000 were satin. Someone may correct me if I'm wrong.

[jtryka]

They are very different, I just bought a roll of 1986 ASEs last month (I need only a roll of 88s to complete the set) and they looked so different from the 2007s I bought earlier in the year. What I would advise is if you have a chance to go to a local coin shop or coin show, take a look at the ASEs throughout the years, and that will give you a feel for whether your coin is in line with what was produced that year, or if you really do have a problem coin.

[Revenant]

They are very different, I just bought a roll of 1986 ASEs last month (I need only a roll of 88s to complete the set) and they looked so different from the 2007s I bought earlier in the year. What I would advise is if you have a chance to go to a local coin shop or coin show, take a look at the ASEs throughout the years, and that will give you a feel for whether your coin is in line with what was produced that year, or if you really do have a problem coin.

 

The bummer there is that the local shop I usually go to doesn't even carry SAEs except for the proof coins in the mint packaging. They keep a handful of the gold ones but not silvers. A gap in their business model if you ask me.

[pendragon1998]

Could you be seeing die polish lines?

[bsshog40]

You know this is very true. Besides the Morgan dollar, the SAE is the most collected dollar. But I have also noticed with 2 coin dealers/shops that I've been to, that SAE's are either non-existent or are very few. Most will deal with only the proofs and bullion SAE's are scarce to none. I've really only found most of my SAE's on ebay with a reputable dealer I use for these. They are usually a couple dollars higher, but they are in very nice condition. Also, dealers like to carry coins that have more value. Bullion SAE's are not very valuable raw, and they would probably just take up more space that can be filled with gold coins or other coins that have more premuim values.

[Revenant]

Could you be seeing die polish lines?

 

Quite possible considering I don't even know what a polish line is.

[bsshog40]

A pic of this coin would be very helpful in seeing what you are talking about. Maybe someone on here can post a coin with some polish/flow lines that you can refer to for reference. These lines are pretty straight across the coin. usually at an angle from 8:00 to 2:00. Under high maginification, they can look like someone took and very fine paint brush and made a straight brush across the entire coin.

[MunkyMan95]

Die polish lines will only show in the fields of the coin, and are raised. If the lines do not continue into the design, then they are likely die polish.

[bsshog40]

Die polish lines will only show in the fields of the coin, and are raised. If the lines do not continue into the design, then they are likely die polish.

 

Thanks chad, I forgot to mention that.

[Revenant]

I added pics to the coin's decription in my set and there's a link to that in my sig. Sadly they don't really show what I'm seeing very well. What you described is pretty darn close to what I'm seeing on the coin though (the lines go pretty much vertically from 12 to 6). I'll attach an image of the reverse of the coin (which is the only side where I'm really noticing the lines).

[Revenant]

Die polish lines will only show in the fields of the coin, and are raised. If the lines do not continue into the design, then they are likely die polish.

 

yep. They only show up in the field. I can't really find them else where.

[bsshog40]

I'm not seeing anything that would make me think this coin has been cleaned. A lot of marks, but looks like they are on the holder correct? You are more than likely seeing polish lines.

[Revenant]

Yes, those marks aren't on the coin (I think they're mostly a dirty scanner actually). Based on all the descriptions I'm hearing you are probably right.

[jtryka]

GADZOOKS!!! All the lettering on the reverse of your coin is BACKWARDS!!!

[Revenant]

GADZOOKS!!! All the lettering on the reverse of your coin is BACKWARDS!!!

 

Yes... well, that'll be a lesson to me to be more careful about how I flip/rotate while I crop images in MS Paint...

[Revenant]

Thanks guys for the input and the help.

[carson city]

Nobody is perfect---Paris Hilton