What a difference a dip makes - conserving a proof 1969-S half

[pendragon1998]

I bought this 1969-S proof Kennedy half back at the end of May on eBay from jtryka. The coin was fairly hazy, but I purchased it for $4.50 as an experiment. jtryka PMed me at the time, wondering why I'd want that one when he had nicer looking examples.

 

Well, long story short, I wanted to try dipping the coin to see if I could improve its appearance. I've only dipped one other coin before and I thought this would be a fun experiment to try.

 

Below are before and after photos. How do you think it turned out? Should I have dipped it more? Opinions welcomed!

 

 

[MunkyMan95]

Still a little haze around the edges, but the coin looks 100X better!

[ibyandsellsmith]

I think it turned out ok, but I'll ask a question, would NGC still grade this coin, or send it back in a bodybag?

[Zoins]

I think it turned out ok, but I'll ask a question, would NGC still grade this coin, or send it back in a bodybag?

The top TPGs (read PCGS and NGC) encapsulate correctly dipped coins, often giving them a grade/designation bump. I believe NCS also does this kind of dipping with the results being NGC encapsulated.

[lkenefic]

I think it turned out ok, but I'll ask a question, would NGC still grade this coin, or send it back in a bodybag?

The top TPGs (read PCGS and NGC) encapsulate correctly dipped coins, often giving them a grade/designation bump. I believe NCS also does this kind of dipping with the results being NGC encapsulated.

 

What is NGCs guarantee [or is there one] should the coin start to haze when in the holder?

 

L

[MAULEMALL]

I think it turned out ok, but I'll ask a question, would NGC still grade this coin, or send it back in a bodybag?

The top TPGs (read PCGS and NGC) encapsulate correctly dipped coins, often giving them a grade/designation bump. I believe NCS also does this kind of dipping with the results being NGC encapsulated.

 

What is NGCs guarantee [or is there one] should the coin start to haze when in the holder?

 

L

Excellent job on the dip

 

I personally believe that anyone who doesn't dip that type coin prior to submission is leaveing money on the table...I have had NCS do a bit of work for me and I am now about to dip about 20 coins with that type hazeing.

 

I can say from experience that ICG cleaned up 2 sets of 1999 Silver proof quarters and a couple SAE's under thier guaranty.pcgs and NGC both will honor thier guaranty and fix the problem as well.

[jtryka]

Dang! You sure showed me! Now I want to see if you were able to do anything with that 86 I sent!

[XpipedreamR]

What did you dip it in?

[TomB]

The appearance seems much nicer post-dip and I am fairly certain that a TPG would be more likely to grade it higher now than when hazy.

[SkyMan]

It looks much better!

[pendragon1998]

What did you dip it in?

 

eZest

[bsshog40]

Good job Michael. Looks a lot better. The ezest is a good dip. I've used this also on the sacs due to them also getting a haze and one short dip takes it off immediately. I use the word haze when this is really a film that gets on these coins that's unlike some other haze. I have a franklin commemorative proof that has haze and I dipped it and the haze didn't go away. I think for proofs, a one shot dip is plenty. Nice job!

[rrantique]

Zesty Mike

[DonHeath]

Ezest shares its active ingredient (thiourea) with Tarnex. The appearance of the coin you pictured is IMO improved by the dip, and you may already know this, but if you did not rinse the coin in distilled water for long enough to neutralize the dip, the coin will rapidly develop amber toning that will further etch the mirrors. You can see what appears to be light cloudiness in the mirrors. That won't improve with further dipping, and is in fact surface damage from the oxidation that created the haze. I occasionally dip a coin to determine whether it is worth sending to NCS, but if the coin has serious potential, I'll spend the few dollars required to let the folks at NCS dip AND neutralize the coin. Good pics, and post. Best of luck.

[pendragon1998]

One thing that I think many people misunderstand is that distilled water will not neutralize an acidic dip. It takes a basic solution to neutralize an acid. All a lot of distilled water will do is dissolve any acidic molecules and wash them away.

 

I wasn't 100% sure I rinsed this coin enough today. I used about a quart or two of hot filtered water (warm water being better at dissolving "stuff") and then blowdried the coin with a can of compressed air. I may take it out tomorrow and rinse it a little more, acetone it, and blowdry it again.

[Houston Investor]

Any coin with a hazy appearance like that should certainly be dipped before submission to a TPG.

 

Good dip job - this coin certainly needed a dip. I don't believe this coins is really expensive enough to justify sending to a TPG. Why spend more money getting it slabbed than what you paid for it. Just put it in a 2 x 2, price it and put what you grade it say proof 69 in code on the back and put Gem Proof on the front. Take out your Coin World Value Trends and price accordingly. Or just price it double bubble and put $9.00 on it - I betcha it will sell. Later on if you want to slab it you can quickly glance at your grade code and decide if you want to send it off.

[gmarguli]

While I like the after coin so much better, I'm really wondering where all the "original is best" people are.

[TomB]

While I like the after coin so much better, I'm really wondering where all the "original is best" people are.

I would have to be considered one of those folks who advocates the buying of coins that might be termed "original", but my niche is within an era of coinage significantly older than this half dollar. In fact, I believe I have in the past advocated the use of dip in cases such as this.

[WoodenJefferson]

While I like the after coin so much better, I'm really wondering where all the "original is best" people are.

 

Had this been a coin other than a proof Kennedy half dollar, say a proof Franklin or even a proof Liberty half dollar, people would have flown out of the wood work like a bunch of flying monkeys wondering why this was being done?

 

Since it wasn't, it was noted as something maybe that could be done, chemically without harm to this coin, made sense. Trying to provoke responses from the sidelines (the peanut gallery) is not going to work with this thread.

[pendragon1998]

While I like the after coin so much better, I'm really wondering where all the "original is best" people are.

I would have to be considered one of those folks who advocates the buying of coins that might be termed "original", but my niche is within an era of coinage significantly older than this half dollar. In fact, I believe I have in the past advocated the use of dip in cases such as this.

 

That's exactly the same place I'm coming from. For older coins, I think original is the only way to go (unless the coin is just so damaged from improper storage or someone's AT attempt that a dip and "fresh start" is the best way to conserve it. For more modern stuff, however, I feel that enough time generally hasn't passed to allow for extensive natural toning - at least for coins stored properly. I think modern coins like this one ought to be pretty darn close to white if they were stored in a proper, cool, dry environment in archival-safe materials. I've got little to no problem dipping something that, like this coin, has hazed up prematurely due to the conditions in which it was stored.

 

By the way, I think there's a misunderstanding by one or two people that I want to slab or sell this coin - I don't. It's just for me

[James_OldeTowne]

Another very informative conservation thread - thanks! Looks like a highly appropriate situation for conservation. I was wondering what you dipped it in?

[pendragon1998]

What did you dip it in?

 

eZest

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Did you say eZest?

 

[coinman1794]

OK then, Greg, I'll speak. haha

 

I highly doubt this coin needed to be dipped to remove the haze. Something like MS70 would have taken it off without eating away the surfaces of the coin and contributing to its furture instability, as the dip will. You can actually dip a coin like that in MS70 and the haze is instantly gone; no rubbing required. I always recomend that dipping be a last resort.

[physics-fan3.14]

What is MS70? I thought that this was dipping it also. What is the difference between this and the eZest used?

[Keleum]

what would you use to neutralize the acid? Is it a light baking soda and water solution, is a slightly basic solution better than distilled water (ph 7.0).

 

Also what's in MS70 if its not acidic? I assumed all these dips are just different concentrates of acid.

[pendragon1998]

dH2O will just dilute an acid or a base. A little dissolved baking soda in water should neutralize any acidic residue, probably shifting the pH of any surface residue to the alkaline side (basic). Baking soda is soluble in water, so then a good distilled water rinse ought to take care of any remaining residue.

 

MS70 is a detergent.

[DonHeath]

Baking soda residue looks worse than the dip residue. Washing soda is much easier to rinse off the coin. I prefer simple deionized water. 99% alcohol is a good drying agent, and is available on the web. Best of luck.

[pendragon1998]

I like acetone for a drying agent. Spraying off liquid droplets using canned air works particularly well for rapid, total drying with no need to blot.

[gmarguli]

While I like the after coin so much better, I'm really wondering where all the "original is best" people are.

I would have to be considered one of those folks who advocates the buying of coins that might be termed "original", but my niche is within an era of coinage significantly older than this half dollar. In fact, I believe I have in the past advocated the use of dip in cases such as this.

 

I'm not sure if you're "starting down a slippery slope" or if you're "jumping from a plane without a parachute".

 

Personally, I feel doctoring coins is doctoring coins, not matter what they are dated. It's either OK or it's not - date of the coin does not matter.