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Questions re Ebay'er "bobscoinmart" and/or "Grade Evaluation Company"...

Started by MarkFeld,

47 posts in this topic

MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted

Ebay seller "Bobscoimart" sells a lot of coins in holders marked "Grade Evaluation Company" - see here

 

I couldn't find any record of an independent grading company by that name and wondered whether he was grading and encapsulating/slabbing his own coins. So I contacted him and received a couple of extremely evasive replies.

 

Many of the Morgan and Peace dollars which he sells have "grades" of MS66 or MS67 and, to put it politely, look to be graded extremely liberally.

 

It is my opinion that it is fraudulent to grade and encapsulate your own coins without disclosing such.

 

Has anyone here had any dealings with him and/or do you know anything about "Grade Evaluation Company"? Thanks.

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MunkyMan95

MunkyMan95

Posted
Posted

Mark,

 

I never though I would be telling you this, but stick to the top three in most cases, and ICG sometimes. NGC, PCGS, and ANACS are always good 27_laughing.gif

 

Looks like a self-slabber to me, and a cruddy grader at that.

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted
It is my opinion that it is fraudulent to grade and encapsulate your own coins without disclosing such.

I have had no dealings with this seller, and frankly, I wouldn't based on how lousy his wares look. That being said, I personally don't believe it is fraudulent for someone to sell self-encapsulated coins without disclosing the fact. It is no different than labeling a 2x2 flip with a grade, and not disclosing who wrote the grade on the 2x2.

 

Here's is what I DO find fraudulent:

 

Item Specifics - US Coins

Certification: Certified

Method of Manufacture: Business Strike

Mint: New Orleans

Condition: Circulated

Material: Silver

 

This information appears at the top of the eBay listings, and I consider it fraudulent to claim that the coins are certified when in fact they are not. They are only "graded" and "encapsulated".

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MunkyMan95

MunkyMan95

Posted
Posted
It is my opinion that it is fraudulent to grade and encapsulate your own coins without disclosing such.

I have had no dealings with this seller, and frankly, I wouldn't based on how lousy his wares look. That being said, I personally don't believe it is fraudulent for someone to sell self-encapsulated coins without disclosing the fact. It is no different than labeling a 2x2 flip with a grade, and not disclosing who wrote the grade on the 2x2.

 

Here's is what I DO find fraudulent:

 

Item Specifics - US Coins

Certification: Certified

Method of Manufacture: Business Strike

Mint: New Orleans

Condition: Circulated

Material: Silver

 

This information appears at the top of the eBay listings, and I consider it fraudulent to claim that the coins are certified when in fact they are not. They are only "graded" and "encapsulated".

 

Some of that blame has to be given to eBay itself. They don't offer just a 'Graded' option in item specifics, and apparently they don't know the difference between certified and only graded and encapsulated.

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WoodenJefferson

WoodenJefferson

Posted
Posted

I zipped off a e-mail to bobscoinmart with the following content:

 

PCGS, the parent owner of CoinFacts.com has been notified that you have hi-jacked a CoinFacts.com web page, using it as a vehicle to make those pieces of junk Morgan Silver Dollars seem more appealing. You should be hearing from their California based law firm by the end of the week.

 

Have a nice day Mr. Crook

 

Cleaning up e-Bay one scoundrel at a time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This was their response:

 

 

Item: 1921 MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR BU GRADED MS 67 US COIN (190119152548)

This message was sent while the listing was active.

bobscoinmart is the seller.

 

 

Hello....we are glad to hear that you are enjoying your new Quantam futon. Your Quantam futon will bring you many years of pleasure. Thanks for your business...

 

Quantam Futons

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Evasive...not in the least.

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted
Some of that blame has to be given to eBay itself. They don't offer just a 'Graded' option in item specifics, and apparently they don't know the difference between certified and only graded and encapsulated.

Chad, great point.

 

James

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

Posted
Posted

 

Hello....we are glad to hear that you are enjoying your new Quantam futon. Your Quantam futon will bring you many years of pleasure. Thanks for your business...

 

Quantam Futons

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Evasive...not in the least.

 

Quantum futon? I want one! Where did you get it, and how is it?

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bsshog40

bsshog40

Posted
Posted

I have never purchased these but I have seen alot of the GEC slabs. I just consider them about as reliable as an SGS slab!

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rrantique

rrantique

Posted
Posted

 

Hello....we are glad to hear that you are enjoying your new Quantam futon. Your Quantam futon will bring you many years of pleasure. Thanks for your business...

 

Quantam Futons

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Evasive...not in the least.

 

Quantum futon? I want one! Where did you get it, and how is it?

 

 

No different 27_laughing.gif1835028-8070_12.jpg Futon Quantam1835028-3_7_9v.gif reply frustrated.gif

1835028-3_7_9v.gif.a287a27987227c7f8db8686348a69917.gif

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michael

michael

Posted
Posted

he makes it appear to be slabbed and then lets peoples minds assume it is something like anx pcgs ngc

 

he is cleverly discuising his motives and intentions

 

by enclosing his c oinds he himself grades liberially way overgraes in my opinion then calls them slabbed and usually when most non advanced or involved closely in the coin game market see this they make many assumptions and think of slabbing as some sort of guaranteed anx pcgs ngc icg type of deal

 

again he is playing on peoples misjudgment and novice capibility and nieveity and assumptions

 

such is sleezebay the wild west of coikns anything goes and to fleece all of the unknowing sheep on sleezebay

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted

Yep, Michael is exactly right, and I agree vehemently with everything he stated. It is sneaky, sinister, creepy and downright disgusting - but unfortunately, not fraudulent (except for the questionable "certified" claim). Such is our world of the business of buying and selling coins.... 893censored-thumb.gif

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WoodenJefferson

WoodenJefferson

Posted
Posted

Do you know of anyone or heard of anyone just "loosing it" and plunking down a bunch of outlandish bids on one sellers batch of coins, doing it just so they do not fall into the untrained masses hands?

 

I can already imagine the consequences with e-bay...but for someone who does not deal in this arena, what would they have to loose?

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chinook

chinook

Posted
Posted

I am not trying to defend this "person" however a quick glance at his completed auction show that for the most part his coins "graded" MS68 are selling for 60-63 money. It really doesnt appear that he is fooling too many.

 

I do not condone his activities, however there are much bigger crooks taking much bigger money from collectors. And I am not talking about those that clean coins through dipping or MS70. Those actions I view as rather amateurish.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
  • Author
Posted
It is my opinion that it is fraudulent to grade and encapsulate your own coins without disclosing such.

I have had no dealings with this seller, and frankly, I wouldn't based on how lousy his wares look. That being said, I personally don't believe it is fraudulent for someone to sell self-encapsulated coins without disclosing the fact. It is no different than labeling a 2x2 flip with a grade, and not disclosing who wrote the grade on the 2x2.

 

Here's is what I DO find fraudulent:

 

Item Specifics - US Coins

Certification: Certified

Method of Manufacture: Business Strike

Mint: New Orleans

Condition: Circulated

Material: Silver

 

This information appears at the top of the eBay listings, and I consider it fraudulent to claim that the coins are certified when in fact they are not. They are only "graded" and "encapsulated".

James, we are in agreement and you put it better than I had. It is when a seller tries to mislead/deceive potential bidders into believing that the coins are "certified" or independently graded when they are not, that it is fraudulent in my opinion.

 

I am not trying to defend this "person" however a quick glance at his completed auction show that for the most part his coins "graded" MS68 are selling for 60-63 money. It really doesnt appear that he is fooling too many.

 

I do not condone his activities, however there are much bigger crooks taking much bigger money from collectors. And I am not talking about those that clean coins through dipping or MS70. Those actions I view as rather amateurish.

Agreed, Dave, though the fraudulent intent and efforts appear to be there, just as in the case of "bigger crooks".
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gmarguli

gmarguli

Posted
Posted
It is when a seller tries to mislead/deceive potential bidders into believing that the coins are "certified" or independently graded when they are not, that it is fraudulent in my opinion.

 

Perhaps you and James and others know of a different definition of "certified" than I do?

 

Here is the definition:

 

cer·ti·fied Pronunciation [sur-tuh-fahyd] – adjective

1. having or proved by a certificate: a certified representative.

2. guaranteed; reliably endorsed: a certified check.

3. legally declared insane.

4. committed to a mental institution.

 

You'll notice that nowhere do it say anything about "independent" or "arms length". The easiest thing to note is #1: "having a certificate", which I think the insert clearly meets.

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WoodenJefferson

WoodenJefferson

Posted
Posted

Link-a-fied

 

190120461663

The 1890 Morgan in this auction is "certified" by GEC to be uncirculated as per the Specifics.

 

Item Specifics - US Coins

 

Certification: Certified

 

Method of Manufacture: Business Strike

 

Mint: Philadelphia

 

Condition: Uncirculated

 

Material: Silver

 

If you take a look at the auction pictures, is is very evidient that this Morgan is NOT uncirculated as "certified" by GEC to be MS-67, therefore fraudulent assumptions, by definition, have been put forward on the part certifier and even passed on seperatly by the seller, if in fact they are not one in the same.

 

Based on the known definition of Mint State condition, the following adjective "uncirculated" used in the auction is then used to create a fraud in progress.

 

uncirculated

 

Main Entry:

 

un·cir·cu·lat·ed

 

Pronunciation: un-ser-ku-la-ted

 

Function: adjective Date: 1917

 

: issued for use as money but kept out of circulation (as for preservation in a collection)

 

btw: seller, if your looking at these allegations, hi.gif

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rrantique

rrantique

Posted
Posted

Grading home page GEC 893censored-thumb.gifsorry.gif

 

http://www.gecgrading.com/Aword.html

 

Subjectivity: Coin grading is the subjective judgment and or opinion of the grader(s). Therefore, all parties agree that GEC Grading has made no warranty and shall have no liability to the customer for the grade assigned to any coin by an agent of GEC Grading.

 

GEC does not guarantee the grade and authenticity of the coins it certifies and encapsulates in an GEC holder

 

 

So much for "certified" makepoint.gif

 

 

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted
Perhaps you and James and others know of a different definition of "certified" than I do?

 

Here is the definition:

 

cer·ti·fied Pronunciation [sur-tuh-fahyd] – adjective

1. having or proved by a certificate: a certified representative.

2. guaranteed; reliably endorsed: a certified check.

3. legally declared insane.

4. committed to a mental institution.

 

You'll notice that nowhere do it say anything about "independent" or "arms length". The easiest thing to note is #1: "having a certificate", which I think the insert clearly meets.

But what the definition does state is: "guaranteed". And I did not find any kind of guarantee expressly or implicitly stated anywhere in either the auction, or on the "GEC" website.

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gmarguli

gmarguli

Posted
Posted
Perhaps you and James and others know of a different definition of "certified" than I do?

 

Here is the definition:

 

cer·ti·fied Pronunciation [sur-tuh-fahyd] – adjective

1. having or proved by a certificate: a certified representative.

2. guaranteed; reliably endorsed: a certified check.

3. legally declared insane.

4. committed to a mental institution.

 

You'll notice that nowhere do it say anything about "independent" or "arms length". The easiest thing to note is #1: "having a certificate", which I think the insert clearly meets.

But what the definition does state is: "guaranteed". And I did not find any kind of guarantee expressly or implicitly stated anywhere in either the auction, or on the "GEC" website.

 

Guarantee is just one of 4 choices. It only has to meet one.

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Zoins

Zoins

Posted
Posted

But don't sellers have to follow eBay's Code of Conduct for Selling Coins and Paper Money which says:

Sellers agree not to knowingly participate in any way in the advertisement, sale or trade of any numismatic material using any deceptive practices including, but not limited to, false or misleading claims of sales scarcity, value, condition or investment potential.
The average coin buyer might think sellers are following these policies and eBay is policing sellers well if the ANA continues to let them use their logo.
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Zoins

Zoins

Posted
Posted
Perhaps you and James and others know of a different definition of "certified" than I do?

 

Here is the definition:

 

cer·ti·fied Pronunciation [sur-tuh-fahyd] – adjective

1. having or proved by a certificate: a certified representative.

2. guaranteed; reliably endorsed: a certified check.

3. legally declared insane.

4. committed to a mental institution.

 

You'll notice that nowhere do it say anything about "independent" or "arms length". The easiest thing to note is #1: "having a certificate", which I think the insert clearly meets.

But what the definition does state is: "guaranteed". And I did not find any kind of guarantee expressly or implicitly stated anywhere in either the auction, or on the "GEC" website.
Guarantee is just one of 4 choices. It only has to meet one.
How about definitions 3 or 4? wink.gif
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gmarguli

gmarguli

Posted
Posted
But don't sellers have to follow eBay's Code of Conduct for Selling Coins and Paper Money which says:
Sellers agree not to knowingly participate in any way in the advertisement, sale or trade of any numismatic material using any deceptive practices including, but not limited to, false or misleading claims of sales scarcity, value, condition or investment potential.
The average coin buyer might think sellers are following these policies and eBay is policing sellers well if the ANA continues to let them use their logo.

 

Grading is subjective. There are also multiple grading scales used in the world. I can start my own grading scale if I like.

 

People need to educate themselves about grading. If they don't, then they bear the responsibility of their (in)actions.

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