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Large Cent Experts, 1838 N-15?

Started by Broc Mitchell,

12 posts in this topic

Broc Mitchell

Broc Mitchell

Posted
Posted

I have an 1838 Large Cent in pretty nice shape which I have been trying to verify as an N-15. The Obverse looks certain to be the same obverse found on both the N-12 and N-15. The reverse, to me, looks certain to be the N-15 but I fear that I may just be seeing things from an optimists point of view. I have done overlays in photoshop against an N-15 from an auction gallery archive and it seems dead on.

 

18381cOBV.jpg

 

18381cREV.jpg

 

The things I note which seem to verify the reverse as N-15 are:

 

Break in the left arm of the T in CENT and right vertical bar in N of Cent.

 

The size of the inner serifs in both E's as well as the slight curve of the upper right corner of the E's.

 

The shape and definition of the serif in C.

 

The width of the upper right serifs of both N's.

 

I greatly appreciate any input on this coin, even if it is that it is not an N-15

 

-Broc

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Conder101

Conder101

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Posted

N-11

 

N-11, 15, and 16 all use the same reverse die. (There was also a N-13 but it turned out to be a late state of N-11 and was delisted.) The reverse die was used for the first time with N-11/13. By the time it finished the "N-13" the die was worn to the point the denticals were mostly gone. It was in this worn state that it was paired with the two other obv dies that gave us N-15 and 16. On N-15 it was paired with a new obv with strong denticals, and 16 the obv was worn and the denticals were worn out on it as well. Your coin has moderately strong obv denticals which eliminates 16, and since 15 comes with strong obv denticals and worn out rev dentical your is most likely a N-11 in a later die state because the obv dentical are weakening and the rev denticals are moderate.

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Broc Mitchell

Broc Mitchell

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Thank you all for the kind welcome and remarks on the coin. It is a bit darker in hand than in the pictures and has just a very slight amount of natural 'red' hugged up against some of the devices in the fields. It did have some green on it when I bought it, which I removed with very careful conservation (looks like there is still some on E in LIBERTY). The original luster remains and cartwheels nicely when twisted in the light. The surfaces are 'average' looking and under high levels of magnification show some ultra fine granularity, which may not even be considerable overall. I think I will end up sending this one to ANACS to get their take on it. All in all not a bad snag at under $100.

 

I do now see that the tables have turned in my mind, it now appears that the coin is most certainly an N-11 as suggested by Conder101. Not only does the state of the denticals fit correctly but there are characteristic die lines on the neck and a tail on the upper left serif on R in LIBERTY which seems to often appear on the variety. It is amazing how similar some of the varieties are, especially with some of the same dies spanning several Newcombs each.

 

Thank you again to everyone who posted!

 

-Broc

 

Oh, and it is lint on Liberty's lip.

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MikeInFL

MikeInFL

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I am anything but an expert, but after careful review of both Noyes and Wright and the posts above, I concur with N-11. Here's my reasoning...

 

It is clearly either 11, 15 or 16 as the reverse is almost instantly identified by its distinctive break of N in CENT and confirmed with placement of letters versus wreath.

 

It can't be 15 because the first 8 in the date doesn't lean left.

 

It can't be 16 because obverse has too much detail left to be the heavily lapped, flowlined, and even a little rusty obverse die.

 

Therefore it seems to best fit 11. A closeup of LIBERTY would allow me to be 100% sure. Among other things, you're looking for a short die-scratch from the right top of E to the coronet line.

 

Hope this helps and all IMHO...Mike

 

[edited to add: very nice coin & thanks for sharing!!!]

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Broc Mitchell

Broc Mitchell

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Among other things, you're looking for a short die-scratch from the right top of E to the coronet line.

 

Hope this helps and all IMHO...Mike

 

This line sure is there, as observed under 15x magnification. Thank you for the additional info, looks like its time for me to get a couple of Large Cent books.

 

-Broc

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