Laura Sperber of Legend Numismatics Speaks Out

[IGWT]

Many of you know that Laura Sperber of Legend Numismatics was banned from the Collectors Universe (PCGS) message boards. Some of you care, and others couldn't care less, and still others don't like any cross-talk between the forums. Regardless of how you feel about her or the PCGS forums, her statement is worthy reading for all collectors (and, after you read this statement, you can also read her opinions on her website). I have never bought anything from Legend Numismatics, and I don't know Laura, although I have exchanged a couple of PMs with her. I don't have firsthand knowledge that Laura wrote this piece, but another person has attributed it to her, and it certainly seems to be written in her style and to reflect her sentiments as written elsewhere.

 

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(removed by request)

[SkyMan]

Good for Laura for be saying these things. They certainly need to be said.

[JamminJ]

Wow, I expected it to just say "I'm great, you're *spoon*" and nothing else.

[WoodenJefferson]

Well...there's the Big Fish and then there's the little fish. The little fish don't make much of a turbulance in the waters of Numismatics, whereas the WHALES make the biggest splash.

 

I'm swimming with the rest of the minnows to a calm, serene cove until the tsunami is over.

[Zoins]

This is a crazy hobby and I appreciate Laura's candidness.

[gmarguli]

Some Devil's Advocate points and questions:

 

It’s so true that when I hit the bourse floor at CSNS all I saw was OVERGRADED *spoon*.

 

Perhaps it is time for her to adjust her grading to the market? If 40% is overgraded according to her, then that would mean that most of the coins on the market are incorrectly graded when you take into account the undergraded ones.

 

 

one crack out guy had bragged that a 13S went for a 63 to a 65 I was furious.

 

Why? Without knowing anything about the coin or its history, there is no way to tell if she is justified in her fury.

 

 

I also hated, when at auction lot viewing, two "crack out" dealers were sitting there openly discussing cracking stuff out, with one talking about how he was going to doctor the coins.

 

Doctor in what way? Dip them or add monster rainbows? It makes a big difference.

 

 

And I still to this day do not understand why Hall or Guth didn't come on and issue a rebuttal.

 

Because David Hall does his best when he can spew lies without a person being able to rebut him with facts. He's a pathetic coward with a god complex. Ignore him. Besides, based on how he looks, he'll be dead soon.

 

 

I told David Hall a year ago-FIRE THE GRADERS and the head finalizer. It is time for fresh eyes. It’s not like this is a big secret.

 

And where are the fresh eyes supposed to come from? And while they are adjusting to the PCGS standards, what about all those mis-graded coins being pumped out?

 

 

I know of at least TWO specific instances where coins were clearly doctored and PCGS did NOT buy them back.

 

Then why not take out a full page ad in the coin rags and publish this? Something with a catchy headline like: WHY DOES PCGS REFUSE TO BUY BACK THESE DOCTORED COINS? IS THEIR GUARANTEE A FRAUD AND WORTHLESS? I bet that would get you some attention.

 

 

They should have spent about $5million to clean things up.

 

Sorry, but if 40% are overgraded, then they should be buying back about $5 Billion.

 

 

The big irony to me is that PCGS has that new magazine, and the first two covers were two coins (the 1876 TD, and the 20S $10) that Legend bought to place into world class collections we built. Yet, in David Hall’s eyes I am an incompetent trouble maker-you should see what emails I have from the past. I think they have to wake up and face reality.

 

OK Laura, time to take a stand against all this. Legend needs to remove ALL their Registry Sets from that site. They need to stop advertising on the PCGS Forums. I await this happening.

[jesbroken]

Heckuva speech. This lady has some true knowledge that scares some people I believe. Over my head, but I applaud her for taking the risk to speak her mind!

[Oldtrader3]

I agree in point, with what Laura is trying to say. There is a lot of stripped garbage out there that has found it's unatural grade level. Kind of like finding one's level of incompetence. This board has posted this issue many times, particularly about gold which I haven't bought any of recently. Laura is pretty blunt and not known for tact, but I think her heart is in the right place. I have agreed more with her over the years than against her. I have bought a few coins from Legend and they were nice.

 

I lost respect for HRH (David Hall) many years ago and later, I was banned from ATS for some time for speaking out. I am now reinstated but don't go over there much anymore because I'm not fond of cool-aid addictees who bicker about every silly thing. I am not even a member of that registry any more, athough a couple my sets are still in it.

 

I still buy NGC and PCGS slabbed coins because I buy what I like and that which is the best quality coin for the money. I will not pay silly premium for a PCGS slab because of it's slab, I only buy the coin! I agree that NGC has tightened their grading recently and I have adjusted for it and appreciate it. Most classic coins do not currently have much of a premium for either service.

 

Let Laura speak her mind. I am more with her than opposed to her viewpoint. Besides, that's what this board is all about!

[BillJones]

Ms. Spenser has some good things to say. The trouble is she so cantankerous and mean-spirited that potential allies, such as I, have learned not join her crusades.

 

She insults those whom she considers to be her inferiors. To her an “inferior” is any small dealer, regardless of their expertise or ethics, who does not sell the volume of business that her firm does.

 

I’ve learned I can’t fight city hall. All I can do examine city hall’s products and separate the bad from the good for my customers and myself. The third party grading services are not perfect, and they are not gods. They are regular people who do a job and render opinions. Some foolish people condemn everything they do. Other foolish people blindly agree with everything they do. Wise people work to become to be informed consumers and learn to grade coins for themselves.

[mrearlygold]

Sounds like a lawsuit brewing for sure

[Tradedollarnut]

Sounds like a lawsuit brewing for sure

 

Not so. Both David Hall and Legend are members of PNG. There is a mandatory arbitration clause between members.

[gmarguli]

Is CU/PCGS a member of PNG? I recall David Hall making comment that after something went against PCGS he'd never go to PNG arbitration again.

[ldhair]

I don't buy from Legend and Laura does not know me.

She speaks her mind and stands her ground and that's something I really respect. Sure, she is a bit bold with her words but it gets folks thinking and talking about important topics.

She is on my list of cool people like those posting to this thread. We all have something about us that someone else is not going to like. Time and age make these things easy to look past.

[Houston Investor]

This certainly is interesting (what things in PCGS land aren't too peachy?), but I do not deal in the kinda big ticket stuff she does. I am sure she would describe me as a wannabe dealer (her coined term). Frankly, I could care less - I have bought stuff off her auction site and made money off a lot of it. She is famous for the term widgets - coins under $1000. Well I guess I am a wannabe that deals in widgets. I still think she has a worthwhile auction site. Otherwise, I really have no use for anything she is hawking. I enjoy dealing coins but would never want to rely on it for a full time living. My financial consulting business produces much more income than my coin business.

 

She discusses MS 66 Saints - these are expensive coins (beyond the affordability of many collectors) and I would rather buy MS 69 - 70 AGE's and Buffalos not to mention modern commem gold. It will take a serious uptick in bullion prices to propel the coin market higher as bullion has been outperforming numismatics.

 

There is no substitute for your own grading skills. I see many TPG big ticket coins that appear to have been submitted umpteen times before making it into that particular dealers case or online inventory. Buy big ticket coins with caution.

[MikeKing]

I have to admit, I agree with her. I do like her style, but I can see that if it were against me, I wouldn't be happy. I've bought coins from her, I like her, I've exchanged some emails with her. On the other hand, there's truth to what Greg says also. I didn't know she got banned from the PCGS board. If so, good for her, welcome to the club, she should consider it a compliment.

[relicsncoins]

This is a hobby, to cross your fingers about somebody dying is a little over the top is you ask me.

 

JJ

[DC Dawg]

I wish Laura Sperber was a better writer. She has so much to say but it does not come across well because it does not read well. I had to remember that Legend is in New Jersey as a suburb of New York in order to understand what she wrote. As someone who understands the concept that ones experience is not being respected, the problem is that her rants are coming across like a petulant child saying that she has the answers and that others do not care. She has a lot to say, but as long as it is coming across like a whine, she will not make an impact on anyone.

 

If Laura is reading this, there are better ways of getting the results you are looking for. First, you have to remember the saying that you can more flies with honey than with vinegar. If you are going to virtually slap people across the face using words and deeds, you have to expect them to respond in kind. It is human nature. Just like someone "threatening" you, you responded to that threat. They will do the same. We are getting into verbal street fighting without a resolution in sight.

 

Second, if you are going to complain about a company's business practices, then why are you still associated with them? Legend is still a PCGS member and continues to display the PCGS badge on its website. Legend continues to advertise at PCGS. Complaining this vigorously without backing it with action appears hypocritical.

 

Finally, hire a ghost writer. Having never met you, I can tell you write like you talk because it reads like you are from the New York metropolitan area. As a native New Yorker, I understand where you are coming from. However, after spending the last 16 years out of New York, I also know that the New York attitude is not as appreciated by non-New Yorkers. I know it is not as fun, but hey, the rest of the country does not understand the way things are to be talked about. It's just the reality of the non-New York world. Sorry!

 

I am not suggesting you change your views. On the contrary, I would like to see your message more widely read and better accepted by the industry that needs to begin a self examination. For the benefit of the industry that can learn from your experience, please find a better way of communicating your knowledge.

 

Scott

[TomB]

I wouldn't necessarily ascribe Laura's writing style, spelling or grammar to her location in NJ. She does not operate out of what would be considered a typical suburb of NYC, though I do not know if she has ever lived in NYC. I lived most of my life in Harlem or within 25 miles of downtown NYC, yet know few, if any people, who write in a manner similar to Laura.

[Stanley]

From where I’m setting I agree with you Scott. She has the knowledge and the influence and merely needs to tweak her delivery system a bit.

 

I feel she is fueling her adversary’s resistance when she could be making them more compliant. JMHO

[Stanley]

As a native New Yorker, I understand where you are coming from. However, after spending the last 16 years out of New York, I also know that the New York attitude is not as appreciated by non-New Yorkers. I know it is not as fun, but hey, the rest of the country does not understand the way things are to be talked about. It's just the reality of the non-New York world. Sorry!

And seriously not meaning to be disrespectful I know what you are saying and I wouldn't have brought that up.

 

Edited to add: Scott you said “New York attitude is not as appreciated by non-New Yorkers”

I believe the more appropriate word would be understood. and not appreciated. JHHO

 

[DC Dawg]

TomB: It's the difference between Manhattan and the 'burbs, particularly the Jersey 'burbs. I know the area around Lincroft since I once worked in Red Bank. Lincroft and that area closer to the Shore are the New York suburbs with a more suburban slant... sort of like the east end of Long Island!

 

I guess your being from New York also explains your responses! Good... it's more fun that way. It's a New York thing!!

 

Stanley: I have lived in the north (NY & NJ), the south (NC & GA), western PA (which is different from eastern PA), I live in the DC metro area and have worked with the federal government for over 12 years. I have travelled to many areas of the country for business and pleasure and have interacted with all types. I know what it is like leaving New York and trying to deal with people who are not expeirenced with the blunt, in-your-face style New Yorkers prefer. New Yorkers are brought up with the fact that it is not personal, it's business and that you can vehemently disagree on one point and still walk away friends. It is a way of life that has to be appreciated to be understood. Thus, I used the correct wording for my purposes. It's a New York thing!!

 

As you read this, play Billy Joel's New York State of Mind in the background!

 

Scott

[cpm9ball]

To me, it doesn't matter whether, or not, I agree with someone. I have a lot of respect for anyone who speaks their mind and holds true to their convictions. Though I've never met Laura, nor have I ever corresponded with her or dealt with her company, she has many good things to say, but she makes it come across more like rambling rather than a solid basis for debate.

 

I don't know enough about PCGS to voice any personal opinions, but if Laura would really like to see some major improvements at PCGS and she has lots of money to spend, then why doesn't she just buy a controlling interest in the company? Hopefully, she would be able to dictate policy and set new standards for PCGS. Once she has (to her satisfaction) "righted the ship", she could step aside and turn over control of the company to people whom she trusts and respects.

 

Chris

[MarkFeld]

...I don't know enough about PCGS to voice any personal opinions, but if Laura would really like to see some major improvements at PCGS and she has lots of money to spend, then why doesn't she just buy a controlling interest in the company?....

I would guess that it would not be possible to do so, based upon the large holdings of various owners.

[Zoins]

...I don't know enough about PCGS to voice any personal opinions, but if Laura would really like to see some major improvements at PCGS and she has lots of money to spend, then why doesn't she just buy a controlling interest in the company?....

I would guess that it would not be possible to do so, based upon the large holdings of various owners.

According to Yahoo! Finance, insiders and 5% owners have 39% of the shares while institutional and mutual funds have 48%. Large institutions would have to be very dissatisfied with management to actually change management but someone visible like Kerkorian can shake things up just by an attempt. Though, with a market cap of $113.21 million, it's really not worth the effort for someone like that.

[cpm9ball]

...I don't know enough about PCGS to voice any personal opinions, but if Laura would really like to see some major improvements at PCGS and she has lots of money to spend, then why doesn't she just buy a controlling interest in the company?....

I would guess that it would not be possible to do so, based upon the large holdings of various owners.

 

insiders and 5% owners have 39% of the shares while institutional and mutual funds have 48%.

 

Institutional investors and mutual funds.....................the soft underbelly!

 

Chris

[CTcollector1]

 

 

Those that live in glass houses, should not throw stones...

 

The responsibility for the commercial state of the hobby reaches well beyond the TPG's...

[lkenefic]

I see this as having very little effect on me. I just keep my head down and collect my widgets...

[DC Dawg]

The responsibility for the commercial state of the hobby reaches well beyond the TPG's...

Now that's the most intelligent response about the state of the market I've heard thus far!

 

Scott

[MikeKing]

I don't see anything about her writing style that would reveal where she grew up.

Anyway, you should know....NYC is the center of the Universe. Go far enough and you'll fall off the face of the earth. The earth IS square...isn't it?

[jtryka]

I agree with a lot of what Ms. Sperber said, and to be honest, I shudder to think what might happen when the big Wall Street money starts flowing into coins again like it did in the late 80s. If you think gradeflation, doctoring etc. are a problem now, just think what would happen if cash in the amount of the current size of the entire coin market starts flooding in to buy coins. Prices skyrocket and suddenly what used to be problem coins are now "market acceptable." There is indeed a lot of blame to go around, I am just happy that one of the larger dealers is saying something, rather than staying quiet and complicit.

 

As for all this New York business, I found the grammar of the letter to be sub-par, but nothing screamed out that it was written in New Yorkese, could just as easily have been from Philadelphia. And yes, I spent 5 years in New York in the mid-90s, but they let me out for good behavior...