Mr Braddick,,,This coin is a MONSTER...

[gmarguli]

Pat, are you going to post a reply on the two threads about this coin at CU?

 

Why should he?

Because, typically, when a dealer's coin is being discused that dealer has good input that the others don't have.

 

Pat is not a dealer. Besides, looking at the posts over there, they seem to have made up their minds and are only looking for a punching bag.

[Zoins]

People are free to come over here. These boards have been mentioned several times in the threads ATS.

 

I agree Pat would be used as a punching bag ATS. No reason for him to go there for this IMO.

[Doogy]

good thread folks!

 

can someone give me the nickel tour on whether or not this thinking is correct in regards to dipping?

 

(i'm no toning expert, so please correct me if i'm astray)

 

I once read that natural toning on a silver coin progresses from light to dark, and somewhere in between is when some color MAY start to develop on said coin. I know many wouldn't dip a coin with light toning, and especially ones with color. But, i've also read where the dark toning is bad for the coins in that this is where pitting/corrosion/etc. can start to set in? so am i right to assume that when a coin starts to tone darkly, even if it is just in certain areas, dipping would actually be GOOD for the coin to keep it from basically corroding away?

 

thanks guys!

 

Doug

[Cladiator]

Pat, are you going to post a reply on the two threads about this coin at CU?

 

Why should he?

Because, typically, when a dealer's coin is being discused that dealer has good input that the others don't have.

 

Pat is not a dealer.

I thought he was. So, if he is not a dealer I should revise my statment to say that typically when a persons coin is being discussed that person has good input that the others don't have.

[MikeInFL]

I'm not sure what's worse...

 

Maulemall calling this AT POS a monster, or

 

Pat's saturation-ehnanced photos, or

 

PCGS slabbing it.

 

Sad on all counts....Mike

 

Your negativity is better suited for the PCGS forums.

 

While we're passing on suggestions.... Your coin-coloring skills would be better suited for the Somali Mint -- I hear there's a new series of guitar coins coming out.

 

I trust you'll pardon me for not taking editorial direction from someone with the moral compass of a flea.

 

Negatively yours....Mike

[MikeInFL]

Pat is not a dealer.

 

Really? Pat sure looks like a dealer to me, complete with his own virtual coin store.

[gmarguli]

I'm not sure what's worse...

 

Maulemall calling this AT POS a monster, or

 

Pat's saturation-ehnanced photos, or

 

PCGS slabbing it.

 

Sad on all counts....Mike

 

Your negativity is better suited for the PCGS forums.

 

While we're passing on suggestions.... Your coin-coloring skills would be better suited for the Somali Mint -- I hear there's a new series of guitar coins coming out.

 

I trust you'll pardon me for not taking editorial direction from someone with the moral compass of a flea.

 

Negatively yours....Mike

 

Not morals, just attitude. Your negativity brings down the forums and all discussions you post to. I feel sorry for you as your stomach must be burning with bile every second of life. You never seem to be a happy person.

[MorganMan]

Why all the arguing here guys,

 

In the Art world, some people love Leonardo DaVinci, and some love Pablo Picasso.

 

And they pay high values for both.

 

So, what is the problem? To each his own.

 

Personally, I have in my collection toned coins (AT & NT), old worn G4 coins, MS66 coins, cleaned coins, dirty coins, crusty coins.

 

Hey, I just love coins! If I like it, i buy it or keep it.

 

 

MM

[MikeInFL]

I'm not sure what's worse...

 

Maulemall calling this AT POS a monster, or

 

Pat's saturation-ehnanced photos, or

 

PCGS slabbing it.

 

Sad on all counts....Mike

 

Your negativity is better suited for the PCGS forums.

 

While we're passing on suggestions.... Your coin-coloring skills would be better suited for the Somali Mint -- I hear there's a new series of guitar coins coming out.

 

I trust you'll pardon me for not taking editorial direction from someone with the moral compass of a flea.

 

Negatively yours....Mike

 

Not morals, just attitude. Your negativity brings down the forums and all discussions you post to. I feel sorry for you as your stomach must be burning with bile every second of life. You never seem to be a happy person.

 

I think you have rather selective memory when it comes to my posts, and a quick search of this forum would show just how wrong you are. My vitriol is almost entirely limited to one subject in particular, a subject you are all to familiar with.

 

Thank you for your concern relative to my happiness, but you assume too much. I have everything I ever wanted in life, a wonderful family to share it with, a job I can be proud to tell my family about, and all without having to lie to or deceive anybody. My happiness is just fine, thanks.

 

However, I cannot and will not sit idly by while lies and deceit continue to ruin our hobby, and I will continue to speak out against it. As Edmund Burke said, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."...Mike

[bsshog40]

It never fails. I have posted here for a little while and the most debated topic that often turns into rudeness and insults are the AT & NT threads. Everyone has there opinions of toning. One thing I'm sure of when pertaining to toned coins, is that an NT would be preferred. But I also know, that AT can look very nice on some coins. The problem that occurs in these threads is that there are those that look at AT as a form of covering up a bad coin. This is not always the case. I know there are those 10% cases that make most people feel this way, but I personally think there are some nice looking AT'd coins out there. I know these threads will never change some minds here and they aren't intended to. This is the place to voice opinions. I just wish that it could be practiced with more maturity more of the time. JMO

[MAULEMALL]

I'm not sure what's worse...

 

Maulemall calling this AT POS a monster, or

 

Pat's saturation-ehnanced photos, or

 

PCGS slabbing it.

 

Sad on all counts....Mike

 

Your negativity is better suited for the PCGS forums.

 

While we're passing on suggestions.... Your coin-coloring skills would be better suited for the Somali Mint -- I hear there's a new series of guitar coins coming out.

 

I trust you'll pardon me for not taking editorial direction from someone with the moral compass of a flea.

 

Negatively yours....Mike

 

Not morals, just attitude. Your negativity brings down the forums and all discussions you post to. I feel sorry for you as your stomach must be burning with bile every second of life. You never seem to be a happy person.

 

I think you have rather selective memory when it comes to my posts, and a quick search of this forum would show just how wrong you are. My vitriol is almost entirely limited to one subject in particular, a subject you are all to familiar with.

 

Thank you for your concern relative to my happiness, but you assume too much. I have everything I ever wanted in life, a wonderful family to share it with, a job I can be proud to tell my family about, and all without having to lie to or deceive anybody. My happiness is just fine, thanks.

 

However, I cannot and will not sit idly by while lies and deceit continue to ruin our hobby, and I will continue to speak out against it. As Edmund Burke said, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."...Mike

What a tool,,,,Maybe you should check your Meds...From what I have read here it's not too awefull hard to find dealers dealing in Blue copper..AND doing alright.

 

Your insignificance overwhelms Me...As does your hypocrisy

 

Have a nice day

[MAULEMALL]

It never fails. I have posted here for a little while and the most debated topic that often turns into rudeness and insults are the AT & NT threads. Everyone has there opinions of toning. One thing I'm sure of when pertaining to toned coins, is that an NT would be preferred. But I also know, that AT can look very nice on some coins. The problem that occurs in these threads is that there are those that look at AT as a form of covering up a bad coin. This is not always the case. I know there are those 10% cases that make most people feel this way, but I personally think there are some nice looking AT'd coins out there. I know these threads will never change some minds here and they aren't intended to. This is the place to voice opinions. I just wish that it could be practiced with more maturity more of the time. JMO

Well Stated

[CarolinaCollector]

This coin is colorful even if it is "manufactured".

 

I don't need to enter this fray because I'd prefer to buy a nice old Large Cent.

[MarkFeld]

It never fails. I have posted here for a little while and the most debated topic that often turns into rudeness and insults are the AT & NT threads. Everyone has there opinions of toning. One thing I'm sure of when pertaining to toned coins, is that an NT would be preferred. But I also know, that AT can look very nice on some coins. The problem that occurs in these threads is that there are those that look at AT as a form of covering up a bad coin. This is not always the case. I know there are those 10% cases that make most people feel this way, but I personally think there are some nice looking AT'd coins out there. I know these threads will never change some minds here and they aren't intended to. This is the place to voice opinions. I just wish that it could be practiced with more maturity more of the time. JMO

Well Stated

You do realize that you said "well stated" right after/even though, in your previous post, you, yourself participated in the very manner he was speaking of, right? I'm not talking only about you, as there have been other battles within this thread. But you did throw out some insults just before your "well stated" comment and that struck me as ironic.

[carson city]

Beautiful AT !

[MAULEMALL]

It never fails. I have posted here for a little while and the most debated topic that often turns into rudeness and insults are the AT & NT threads. Everyone has there opinions of toning. One thing I'm sure of when pertaining to toned coins, is that an NT would be preferred. But I also know, that AT can look very nice on some coins. The problem that occurs in these threads is that there are those that look at AT as a form of covering up a bad coin. This is not always the case. I know there are those 10% cases that make most people feel this way, but I personally think there are some nice looking AT'd coins out there. I know these threads will never change some minds here and they aren't intended to. This is the place to voice opinions. I just wish that it could be practiced with more maturity more of the time. JMO

Well Stated

You do realize that you said "well stated" right after/even though, in your previous post, you, yourself participated in the very manner he was speaking of, right? I'm not talking only about you, as there have been other battles within this thread. But you did throw out some insults just before your "well stated" comment and that struck me as ironic.

I don't think that stateing the obvious should cause any irony but if it your desire then please enjoy the irony...

[MorganMan]

[WinstonWare]

It’s odd but some of the most contentious threads are also some of the most informative. We don’t always have to agree on a subject to learn from others.

[joefro-migration]

"After I purchased it raw I had it slabbed by PCI for my personal collection. It didn't remain in that slab for very long."

 

Why not Braddick? I am curious as to what drove you to submit this coin to PCGS after PCI already slabbed it with questionable toning. Do YOU personally believe this coin is AT or NT?

[bochiman]

Pat, are you going to post a reply on the two threads about this coin at CU?

 

Why should he?

Because, typically, when a dealer's coin is being discused that dealer has good input that the others don't have.

 

Pat is not a dealer. Besides, looking at the posts over there, they seem to have made up their minds and are only looking for a punching bag.

 

 

I fully agree with the last line there.....some of those folks (especially some of the "new" "lurker turned poster"...ahem....) are just looking to put the rope on and pull.

 

Pat is being very diplomatic and smart by not posting there, no matter what anyone thinks.

 

And, just for the record, reading this entire thread so far.....I don't get why folks here think they are "holier" than those on the CU boards....both sets have people that go after each other. Difference is that this board is generally a little more moderated by NGC than CU's by PCGS, and that keeps things a little tighter.

[braddick]

"After I purchased it raw I had it slabbed by PCI for my personal collection. It didn't remain in that slab for very long."

 

Why not Braddick? I am curious as to what drove you to submit this coin to PCGS after PCI already slabbed it with questionable toning. Do YOU personally believe this coin is AT or NT?

 

Please, count me among those who believe PCI, at times, gets it wrong by overgrading.

You may also include me in the very, very limited group of collectors who believe, occasionally, PCI gets it wrong in the other direction.

 

Is the coin AT or NT?

I only mildly care either way. It's pretty, (to me and, apparently to many others as I've received offers via PM's from both sides of the street) and, that's all that interests me.

It also struck the fancy of many other collectors as the snipers came out in full force during the last few moments of the eBay auction this silver eagle was featured in when I bought it a few years ago. There was a thread, or two, started over at PCGS because the results were so insane.

 

An additional thought:

Everyone has their niche.

Some collect early gold. Others are copper experts and collectors, and still others are putting together high grade modern registries..

I collect odd and unusual coins. That's my niche.

I've always done so.

Coins such as PCGS and ANACS and NGC certified, low grade, problem free contemporary coins, such as two ANACS FA02 1964 Kennedy halves along with three from PCGS I own. Some of you may remember this:

 

I offered a pretty healthy bounty over on the PCGS forums for dealers and collectors to be on the lookout for a PO01 Ike dollar and, although my offer was something along the lines of $1,000.00, didn't get one taker although I extened the deal for up to a year (and even encouraged those with rock tumblers to attempt to 'make' me one!).

 

Someone did locate a FA02 Ike for me (you can see that one listed in my eBay store).

 

I also enjoy colorfully toned, bright coins. I've collected a few of these over the years.

And, I sell what I collect.

 

YOU decide personally for yourself if you like what I buy and sell or not.

 

Unfortunately personality comes before coins and it is threads regarding the former that always hits home runs vs threads centered and themed on the latter.

[gmarguli]

Is the coin AT or NT?

I only mildly care either way. It's pretty, (to me and, apparently to many others as I've received offers via PM's from both sides of the street) and, that's all that interests me.

 

The funny thing about all the posters ATS is that they are asking you if it is AT or NT. Yet it has been very clear from the start that you purchased the coin off eBay. The only way to know for sure that it is AT is if you were the person who did it - and it is clear in this case that you purchased the coin as is.

 

And the coin is very, very pretty. I'll publicly offer $1,000 for it.

 

 

Everyone has their nitch.

Some collect early gold. Others are copper experts and collectors, and still others are putting together high grade modern registries..

I collect odd and unusual coins. That's my nitch.

I've always done so.

Coins such as PCGS and ANACS and NGC certified, low grade, problem free contemporary coins, such as two ANACS FA02 1964 Kennedy halves along with three from PCGS I own.

 

I've said this several times before, you have more fun in this hobby than anyone I have ever met. I honestly wish I could have as much fun as you!

[joefro-migration]

Thank you for your reply Braddick. I definitely agree with everything in your statement.

 

On the other hand, you did avoid my question about your opinion on how this toning occured. I didn't ask if you cared whether the coin was AT or NT, I asked what your opinion on which category it falls in. I understand you enjoy this coin either way, but being the owner and having seen it in hand... you have to have a personal opinion as to whether it is AT or NT. Especially since one of your specialties is toners. So...?

[Elcontador]

I've read this whole thread. Greg's signature says that you should know exactly what you are buying before making the purchase. He's right.

 

You should know what you are looking for before selecting a particular coin. This involves education. It also can be helpful to have a second set of eyes (from someone you trust) to give you additional info you might want about said coin. This once saved me from buying an attractive, pedigreed, albeit baked coin that got into a first world slab.

 

You should know how to grade the particular coin of interest. You should also know what list of particulars is important to you. Ie., I will not buy a coin with a fingerprint. I don't like carbon spots on copper, etc. etc.

 

You also should not let others try to make your decision for you. Ie., I don't care what number is on a coin's slab or who slabs it; if a coin doesn't meet my criteria, I don't want it, period. I don't care if grading service XYZ says a particular coin is "market acceptable" and puts it in a slab. If it doesn't meet my standards, the coin is unacceptable to me, and NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.

 

I have seen many high grade classic coins. In the process, I also have learned to some degree what to look for and what to avoid in evaluating these coins. I do not like artificially enhanced coins - and yes, I've seen many of them in first world slabs - I usually know them when I see them.

 

As Greg said, "if you don't know exactly what you are purchasing, then don't purchase it." To this end, not only do I avoid coins which I deem to be "problem coins," but if something doesn't look quite right to me, I also avoid it as well.

 

Just remember, you don't have to buy any particular coin. It must meet your standards. I looked a good four years before I finally found an acceptable Barber Half (February '07 @ Long Beach, oddly enough).

 

Don't let anyone talk you into buying something that doesn't meet your standards. The coin should speak for itself. If someone attempts to "talk up" a coin, it probably does not meet your standards. And if you have unanswered questions about a particular coin, I agree with Greg, in that you do not know exactly what you are purchasing, so you should not buy it.

 

The above being said, I am not interested in the coin which is the subject of this discussion. It does not meet my standards.

[Connecticoin]

In some respects, this is true. The aforementioned coin is so blantant, that even the newbie should question the color. If the newbie wants to spend $200 on it, he will soon find out an easy and somewhat inexpensive lesson on color. However, the newbie who buys blue indians spending thousands of dollars, will be in for a shock upon selling. There is obvious AT, there is subtle AT and there is AT where no one can tell the difference. Education is always best.

TRUTH

 

Oh please, knower of all things true, do tell us how to tell the difference between and NT blue proof IHC and an "ATd" or "MS70d" blue proof IHC.

[braddick]

I couldn't locate the low grade Ike search on the PCGS forums, but I did locate this $1,500.00 Reward for a PO01 1970-D Kennedy thread that'll give you a flavor of the type of coins I seek.

 

(And, sadly, no one was able to 'tumble' me one of those Kennedys and get it into a slab... )

[jesbroken]

Like most posts which picque interests, this one had to turn ugly. That is a shame. What are we talking about folks? Whether a coin is AT or NT? I don't think so, there would never be closure to that argument.What is at debate here is simply attitudes and personalities. And again this will never provide closure. I would hope that all concerned would pm each other and settle their differences, which would provide all of us with a break from the arguing and name calling.

I have made my position clear in several posts, and that is that 'toned' coins scare me as to value and are not at the top of my list to buy. Yet, this coin is special, whether AT or NT, it is absolutely gorgeous and whether it should be slabbed by a TPG or not is inconsequential to its beauty. I hate to say it but YES I would like to own this coin just to look at.

I think our opinions are all justified as people who have spent years in the industry and deserve the respect for that alone. We don't have to agree, merely respect anothers right to opine.

Good luck to you Mr. Braddick, you have a beautiful coin.

[Connecticoin]

And the coin is very, very pretty. I'll publicly offer $1,000 for it.

 

I wish I could have hit the $250 BIN when he had it up.

[MAULEMALL]

And the coin is very, very pretty. I'll publicly offer $1,000 for it.

 

I wish I could have hit the $250 BIN when he had it up.

You and Me both brother

[dugcoins-migration]

Am I the only one that finds this coin hideous? No offense to the owner (to each his own), but what am I missing here?