1921 Peace dollar story continued.

[SkyMan]

As some of you may remember, a couple of weeks ago I bought raw a nicely struck 1921 Peace dollar, in roughly MS62. When I got it home I found what appeared to be toolmarks above the eagle's back and in front of the eagle's throat. These marks really pi$$ed me off as the coin had a scratch on the cheek that would keep it out of any grade higher than 62, and yet the coin was an obvious UNC, so the tooling made no sense to me. I talked to the dealer I bought it from and he said he would refund my money when we met again at Santa Clara. I took it to the Santa Clara show, and the dealer recomended that I show it to Dave at the NGC booth. Dave saw the coin and told me that what I was seeing was the effects from a die that had gotten clashed and then very harshly repolished. He pointed out various diagnostics to me. I had never seen die polishing like that before, so it was fun to learn something new.

 

While that was interesting in and of itself, I was then wandering the bourse after that and got to talking to Becoka from ATS. When I mentioned that I had a nicely struck Peace dollar he pulled out his, which had a bit better strike than mine on the obverse and a bit worse on the reverse. It was slabbed PCGS MS63 (his was a touch cleaner technically than mine), and low and behold when I looked at it under a loupe it had the same diagnostics as mine. So clearly there is a harshly repolished 1921 Peace dollar die out there that has cranked out a number of well struck dollars.

[robec1347]

That's an interesting story Sy. I wonder how many coins were minted with that die. I checked out my '21, but I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Maybe that should be a new VAM. We'll have to see pictures of it so we'll know what we're looking for. Pretty cool.

[LuvToCollect]

I have a 21 DDR, I wonder if its from the same striking?

[CarlWohlforth]

A well struck 1921 Peace Dollar is a thing of beauty!

[bsshog40]

Way to go skyman. Bet that turned your frown into a smile.

[EZ_E]

A well struck 1921 Peace Dollar is a thing of beauty!

 

[Bruceswar]

This thread needs a well struck peace dollar. So here is one..

 

[MikeKing]

Bruce, did you ever get that graded by a TPG?

[bsshog40]

Nice 21' there bruce!

[Bruceswar]

Bruce, did you ever get that graded by a TPG?

 

After the first try.. I left it raw..

[Doogy]

nice '21 Bruce!

 

while we're on the topic, i love the high relief Peace as much as any collector. the thing that always put me off about buying one is knowing what to look for in the 'strike' category. what are the tell-tale signs of a good strike vs. a bad one? also, being that this a high relief issue, i assume a very strong strike (say in the MS62-64 range) brings a nice sized premium?

 

thanks for the help guys!

 

Doug

[relicsncoins]

Bruce, did you ever get that graded by a TPG?

 

After the first try.. I left it raw..

 

Whad did they bag it for on the first try? Improperly cleaned or AT?

[Bruceswar]

Obverse Scratch.. This coin is neither of the 2 you mentioned. The color is MA at least.

[SkyMan]

I always loved that '21 Bruce! BTW, what's the big f_cking deal about a scratch, wouldn't it just affect the grade of the coin, not cause a bodybag?

 

nice '21 Bruce!

 

while we're on the topic, i love the high relief Peace as much as any collector. the thing that always put me off about buying one is knowing what to look for in the 'strike' category. what are the tell-tale signs of a good strike vs. a bad one? also, being that this a high relief issue, i assume a very strong strike (say in the MS62-64 range) brings a nice sized premium?

 

thanks for the help guys!

 

Doug

 

Doug,

 

On the obverse look at the hair detail starting about where the ear would be to ending at just behind the neck. On the reverse, look at the front of the eagle's leg where it attaches to the body (and that part of the body).

[robec1347]

Based on Bruce's beauty, what would you say the grade of this '21 is?

 

 

[Doogy]

very cool, thanks for the tips SkyMan!

 

 

Doug

[RWB]

In addition to the other items mentioned, all obverse inscriptions will be rounded on the top face of the letters. Also, the original bronze obverse cast did not have fine hair detail in the locks just in front of the ear. According to James Fraser, this was referred to as "massing" and was part of the design. Unfortunately, de Francisci’s design was selected as the best among the eight submitted and judged, and no one realized at the time that having the highest point of both obverse and reverse opposite one another was a major problem.

[SkyMan]

Bob, that's a very attractive Peace dollar!

 

I would grade it a 63 due to the reed marks on the cheek, but I have seen worse in 64 slabs.

[dooly]

What a well minted 21 I am going for a MS64 with my gess

[RWB]

Grading services do not seem to consider strike when grading 1921 Peace dollars. Many of the best struck pieces are AU-58 with satin surfaces and probably come from the first 100,000 struck on Dec 28.

 

My personal preference is for a well-struck coin with a trace of wear vs perfect surfaces and missing detail.

[rrantique]

Those high reliefs 21's are beautiful

[rexcat]

Cool story Sy!

 

I’m glad to hear your coin wasn’t tooled and is as struck.

 

Also I agree with Bob, if it was a reworked die that created this feature which is not normally found on 1921 Peace dollars, these coins should be cataloged as a VAM.

 

Bob, below is my NGC MS64 dollar, except for the bite marks on Liberty’s check yours looks pretty much the same, so I think it could get into an 64 holder, and no less than 63.

 

I also feel both of these coins show the same amount of detail in the hair which is a little better than average, but no where as full as Bruce’s coin, which is as full of strike I’ve ever seen on a 1921 Peace dollar.

 

 

[robec1347]

Bob, below is my NGC MS64 dollar, except for the bite marks on Liberty’s check yours looks pretty much the same, so I think it could get into an 64 holder, and no less than 63.

 

Mine is also an NGC MS64.

 

I also feel both of these coins show the same amount of detail in the hair which is a little better than average, but no where as full as Bruce’s coin, which is as full of strike I’ve ever seen on a 1921 Peace dollar.

 

That is what surprised me about Bruce's 62. The detail on his '21, especially in the hair, is second to none. I've never seen one with as much detail.

 

Bruce, is that scratch that much more noticeable in hand? If that's it between the motto and the L, I can't see why it would get the bb.

 

Paul, ours do look very similar, especially the toning. Did I tell you how much I like yours?

[rexcat]

[quote

Paul, ours do look very similar, especially the toning. Did I tell you how much I like yours?

 

Oh I figured you might inclined to feel that way...

 

Seeing it’s just like yours, and already warped in plastic.

[Bruceswar]

From "In God We Trvst" running west on the coin. It is not that bad in hand at all, so I do not know.

[robec1347]

I think you caught 'em in a bad mood. I'll bet it would grade higher than you graded it. Although I do know how you feel about TPG's.

 

At any rate, Bruce, not that it really matters what I think, but I think it's as nice a '21 that has ever been minted.

[Bruceswar]

Bob I agree with you. I am not totally Anti TPG's, but also for the same token I am not going to play the lets submit 10 times to finally get it in holder X. Once is enough for me.

[rexcat]

Bob I agree with you. I am not totally Anti TPG's, but also for the same token I am not going to play the lets submit 10 times to finally get it in holder X. Once is enough for me.

 

Right on Bruce!

 

Your coin doesn’t need any plastic around it, that’s the kind of coin that will always be able to sell itself; personally I would pay 64 money and jump at it to get a high relief Peace dollar with such good strike and eye appeal even if it was in a 62 holder.

[SkyMan]

 

Right on Bruce!

 

Your coin doesn’t need any plastic around it, that’s the kind of coin that will always be able to sell itself; personally I would pay 64 money and jump at it to get a high relief Peace dollar with such good strike and eye appeal even if it was in a 62 holder.

 

Bruce's coin is the nicest strike I've ever seen on a Peace dollar. It is a Monster!

[Bruceswar]

 

Right on Bruce!

 

Your coin doesn’t need any plastic around it, that’s the kind of coin that will always be able to sell itself; personally I would pay 64 money and jump at it to get a high relief Peace dollar with such good strike and eye appeal even if it was in a 62 holder.

 

Bruce's coin is the nicest strike I've ever seen on a Peace dollar. It is a Monster!

 

If we are talking about Mosters lets talk about your WLH Proof.

 

 

As a side note I picked my peace dollar up at an antique shop for MS60 money at the time. I will honestly state I did not know the strike was soo well until I got home and did more research on it.