Some people (dealers) are such [take advantage of gullable people]

[WaxonWaxov]

 

I just received the following email from DSS Coin and Bullion in Omaha, NE. (DssCoinAndBullion.com)

 

2007 Presidential Dollar Program

The Presidential $1 Coin Act of 2005

The United States is honoring our Nation's Presidents by issuing $1 circulating coins featuring their images in the order that they served, beginning with Presidents Washington, Adams, Jefferson and Madison in 2007. The United States Mint will mint and issue four Presidential $1 coins per year, and each will have a reverse design featuring a striking rendition of the Statue of Liberty.

The Presidential $1 Coin Act (Public Law 109-145) seeks to revitalize the design of United States coins and return circulating coinage to its position as an object of aesthetic beauty in its own right. Accordingly, the new Presidential $1 coins will feature larger, more dramatic artwork, as well as edge-incused inscriptions of the year of minting or issuance, "E Pluribus Unum," "In God We Trust" and the mint mark.

*DSS Presidential Dollar Pre-Sale*

We will be making our first order of these when they become available from the mint on February 15th.

We are offering an exclusive Pre-Sale for the first release of the exciting new coins.

We are selling the coins in 2 coins sets and 2 roll sets, including both the Philadelphia and Denver Mint coins.

Each coin will be in Brilliant Uncirculated condition.

 

Prices:

 

The 2 coin Philadelphia and Denver sets are $4.15 per set.

 

The roll set will be $99.95 for the 2-25 coin rolls.

 

Shipping:

Free Shipping on 10 sets or more!

Free Shipping on all roll orders!

On 1-9 sets shipping will be $1.50 for the whole order.

 

OK, so throught these guys the two roll set is $99. If the Mint maintains the same prices from the 2006 Sacagawea rolls I can get the same "2 roll set" direct from the Mint for $76.

 

And the "two coin set" for $4.15?

 

You know as well as I do that they are going to buy the aforementioned rolls from the Mint for $35.50, or $1.775 per coin and put them in these 'sets' then sell them for $4.15? That's a 17% mark-up!

 

[MarkFeld]

The thread title, while sure to attract interest, doesn't appear to fit with or be justified by the information presented.

[Ambassador]

I'm new here and don't want to offend and I would never do business of encourage anyone from dealing with these marketers but a 17% margin is not outrageous. What's the spread in bid and ask?

[WaxonWaxov]

Well yes, but 17% on something you can buy from the Mint direct?

[Bruceswar]

I see nothing wrong with what they are doing. They have to make some money. "Profit is not a dirty word."

[MarkFeld]

Well yes, but 17% on something you can buy from the Mint direct?

While that means that buyers are better off buying directly from the Mint, it certainly doesn't make the dealers "thieves".

[LuvToCollect]

"The United States of America: What a country!".....Yakov Snirnoff

[Dcoin]

 

$1.775 per coin and put them in these 'sets' then sell them for $4.15? That's a 17% mark-up!

 

 

The math be a little off here...its more like a 234% markup on these coins.

 

17% is not such a bad deal, but 234% is a bit much, but then again coin sales seem to attract HUGE profit seekers.

[Ambassador]

I think the math is still off. It's two dollar coins selling for 4.15, allowing .15 for whatever holder they are using leaves 100% markup. That being said the holder likely will cost more than .15 lowering the markup, figure some labor for handling in assembling the sets and the markup is not as bad as at first glance appears to be. I still think it's a rip but that's the American way, maximum profit for minimum effort.

[Houston Investor]

I frankly do not see how they can make money with a 17% markup as operating expenses in the rare coin business are a minimum of 10-15% or more. To call these dealers thieves is an absurdity and illustrates the ignorance of the poster starting this thread as to what it takes to stay solvent in the rare coin business. Ten cents on the dollar will not cut it in the coin business!

 

My own rare coin profit model assuming sales are 100%, targets cost of sales at 60% of sales, operating expenses are 20%, and net income 20%. Consequently my target contribution margin as a percentage of sales is 40% with target profit at 20% of sales. These are operating targets I am out to accomplish in the course of my rare coins business.

 

I have been at shows and had collectors look at something in my case and say "well I can get one from the mint for x$" I simply tell them "well maybe you should go buy one from them." Doesn't bother me at all to buy something from the mint and then try to flip it for more even if the mint still hasn't discontinued sales!

[Houston Investor]

Well yes, but 17% on something you can buy from the Mint direct?

 

Then go buy it from the mint then if you don't like their asking price.

[michael]

once they get some fish hooked with this current offering just a come-on to get names of potential fish

 

think of it AS A drug dealer giving free doobees to kids

 

then they will offer more expensive rarities

 

in other words once they get the fish hooked on the less expensive kandy then onto more expensive kandy coins

 

 

tasty

[thebeav]

Even if you bought the rolls from me here, I'm affraid my family would be starving......

Makes me wonder what some of you guys get paid to do on a weekly basis ??

 

Paul

[bsshog40]

Business is business. Everyone looks for a profit somewhere. I don't know how many times I've seen posts on certain coins, commemorative or otherwise, and buying in bulk and wondering how profit can be made off them. It's the american way. It really depends on the consumer on which route they want to take to get the coins they want.

[DC Dawg]

Business is business. Everyone looks for a profit somewhere. I don't know how many times I've seen posts on certain coins, commemorative or otherwise, and buying in bulk and wondering how profit can be made off them. It's the american way. It really depends on the consumer on which route they want to take to get the coins they want.

 

Further more... if you don't like the price, don't buy from them!!

 

I've purchased from DSS before and received this email. I saw the prices and thought that they were a bit high, so I was going to pass. I have nothing against Dave and Sam. They seem to run a good business and do nicely to leverage the Internet to make money. This is a way they decided to make money to make a living. I have no problem with that. If they can sell coins for those prices, more power to him! Just because I did business with them in the pass does not mean I have to do business with them now.

 

Besides, there is an elderly couple who sets up a table in the same place at the Baltimore show. Not only are they nice people, but they seem to love what they do. Their prices are fair and I am comfortable buying my uncirculated moderns from them. I will buy from them and look to do business with Dave and Sam at another time.

 

That's it... move on!

 

Scott

[just-john]

option 1=So lets see 50 dollars of coins for 100 dollars

option 2= go to bank or post office 50 dollars for 50 dollars

option 3 = go to casino in 6 months maybe win 50 for ////?

I vote 2

markup and profit are two different things/look at state run lotterys 1 dollar for nothing

thats profit

[EZ_E]

Even if you bought the rolls from me here, I'm affraid my family would be starving......

Makes me wonder what some of you guys get paid to do on a weekly basis ??

 

Paul

 

La Cosa Nostra

 

Ask again and I'll hafta killya!

 

[cpm9ball]

I think I said this in another thread, "I will buy my token, 2-roll set from the Mint and another 20-30 OBW rolls of each mintmark at face value."

 

Chris

[WaxonWaxov]

I've purchased from DSS before and received this email. I saw the prices and thought that they were a bit high, so I was going to pass. I have nothing against Dave and Sam. They seem to run a good business and do nicely to leverage the Internet to make money. This is a way they decided to make money to make a living. I have no problem with that. If they can sell coins for those prices, more power to him! Just because I did business with them in the pass does not mean I have to do business with them now.

 

I've purchased from them in the past also. Sometimes pleased, sometimes neutral. It's just this their prices in this instance got my dander up.

[texasrichard]

Thieves?

You've got to be kidding me.

 

What do you then call the companies that bottle water and sell it for $1.50 a bottle?

 

If you don't like the deal, don't buy. Pretty simple.

[WaxonWaxov]

What do you then call the companies that bottle water and sell it for $1.50 a bottle?

 

Thieves.

 

[texasrichard]

What do you then call the companies that bottle water and sell it for $1.50 a bottle?

 

Thieves.

 

 

 

Well at least you're consistent

[BillJones]

I'm frankly tied of your rants about how all coin dealers are crooks. Sure there have been and will be some bad people in this business who were out to do nothing by cheat people. But to label an entire industry as corrupt is patently wrong. If all the people who supply coins to collectors are all crooks, why you do you continue to participate in the hobby?

 

For my part I generally work on 10 to 20 percent mark-ups. If I pull a coin or token from my collection, I charge whatever the market is, just like everyone else with a brain does. If the state wants sales tax, I have to add that to the price. If you don’t like the sales tax, complain to your politicians; don’t complain to me; and don’t ask me to evade it.

 

If you think that a 10 to 20 percent mark-up is too much, are you willing to work your job for $1 to $2 an hour? Could you survive only doing volunteer work for no pay? Could you afford to pay from $185 to $400 for a table at a weekend show plus travel and lodging expenses and sell your merchandise at cost?

 

I’m as much against crooked coin dealers as you are, but business has to turn a profit, or it won’t survive for long.

[Conder101]

Good rant Bill, and very truthful. The problem is a great many collectors have never tried running a business, especially a coin business, and they just don't realize how low the markups and how high the expenses really are.

[WaxonWaxov]

I'm frankly tied of your rants

 

Tired of MY rants? I wasn't aware I ranted at all on this board.

 

Your point is taken.

 

My particular problem in regards to this particular add is that the dealer is selling items that are currently available to the public from the Mint for a mark-up.

 

Many people (general public, not collectors) are not aware that they can buy directly from the Mint.

[MarkFeld]

My particular problem in regards to this particular add is that the dealer is selling items that are currently available to the public from the Mint for a mark-up.

 

Many people (general public, not collectors) are not aware that they can buy directly from the Mint.

If you had stated that at the outset, without calling the seller (and other dealers) "thieves", you likely wouldn't have received the same complaints about being inaccurate and unfair.

[Tradedollarnut]

He must really hate those guys selling uncirculated state quarters for fifty cents! ;-)

[DC Dawg]

Good rant Bill, and very truthful. The problem is a great many collectors have never tried running a business, especially a coin business, and they just don't realize how low the markups and how high the expenses really are.

Condor and Bill are both right. Running a business is NOT easy, regardless of the business you try. This is why I chose to go back to the corporate world. This is why I do not bemoan a dealer's attempt to make money (isn't that what a business is supposed to do?).

 

Sometimes, I will buy from a dealer instead of from the Mint for the dealer-client relationship being built and/or nurtured. I have found that by being a regular customer and treating the dealer fairly, the dealer will treat me fairly and I could see some good deals. So if I pay a little more for one coin, my regular dealings with the dealer will help me make it up somewhere else. It all balances out. In the end, I still get my coins, the dealer does make money, and we're both happy.

 

One of the thing I like about numismatics is the ability to establish those relationships with good people. Most dealers are not big companies--they are individuals making a living on a 10-20 percent margin. But they are good, hardworking, and knowledgeable people who can be fascinating to talk with. But it is my money and if I choose not to spend it with that dealer, I do not make a big deal out of it and move on. This was one of those cases I chose to move on.

 

So let's move on!

 

Scott

[WaxonWaxov]

good point, Scott.

[just-john]

Sometimes I wish I had a job but then I would have to go to work.Work not me been there done that. Let the buyer beware