Bidding against forum members

[pendragon1998]

They were talking about this in the BST forum and it got me to thinking: Is it wrong or sometimes wrong to bid against a fellow forum member?

 

My initial thought was that it depends. If I came to the forum with a question regarding a particular auction I was bidding on and then someone jumped in and started bidding against me, I'd be a little upset, provided they wouldn't have been interested in the coin until I started talking about it. If I'm saying, "hey, I think this is a rare variety - do y'all agree?" and then someone starts trying to outbid me because they think they'll make a big profit...well, they might make the profit and the win, but they'd lose my trust and damage any friendship we had. Likewise, I'd ask someone showing a coin in that circumstance if I was really interested in the coin.

 

If I'm just cruising eBay and see a coin I like, I generally bid on it regardless of who else is bidding on it. If I later realize it's a fellow forum member (it's never occurred before that I've noticed) I might consider asking them how important the coin is to them, particularly if I knew it was a coin they really needed for their collection and I didn't really need it.

 

If someone posted something in the BST forum in an auction format, I don't think I'd have a problem bidding against a friend. Whichever one of us is willing to pay the most should end up with the coin. I might consider not doing so if I wasn't serious about the coin though and had been planning to lowball the bid, so as not to unnecessarily drive up the cost for by friend though. I'd also be more likely (again, if I realized the situation) to contact them and see what their feelings were about the particular coin.

 

I know that if I was bidding on something and, for example, TomB or someone PMed me and asked if I minded if they bid on it too, I'd more than likely say yes, unless I was really, really interested in the coin.

 

What do y'all think about that?

[gmarguli]

It's an auction and all is fair. I'd have no problem bidding against a fellow forum member. For some forum members, I'd take pleasure in it.

 

However, if I liked the forum member I may ask them how interested they are in the coin and what they were willing to pay.

[Zoins]

Yep, I think all is fair in collecting and bidding. The first bay auction I ever posted a question about here happened to have a BIN. The first response I got said the person purchased it using the BIN

 

It seems easier to just treat all other bidders the same, whether they are forum members or not.

[LuvToCollect]

If you found it, asked the board for an opinion, and then got sniped. I think that would be cheesier than Limburger on a hot summer day.

[Tradedollarnut]

All's fair in love and war - coin collecting is a bit of both! ;-)

[DC Dawg]

I have bid on items that others have pointed out here. IMHO, it is the same as if we were sitting in an auction room bidding against each other, except virtually.

 

I am a devout capitalist and this is capitalism at its finest!

 

Scott

[jgrinz]

Its happened to me here .. I was upset and vented ... I deleted the post as there was no way to proove who did it. I will not show coins EVER that I have interest in here BEFORE winning them.

 

Honesty is virtue which is not practiced by everyone ...

[TomB]

Personally, I believe no one here owes anyone else special consideration when it comes to a coin in either a BIN or auction setting. Of course, this does not preclude showing that consideration to the other.

[LuvToCollect]

Let me make sure I understand the parameters.

Person A researches, locates the item, and asks the "helpful friends" of the board.

Person A gets sniped, and this is capitalism at its best.

All is fair in love and war so I am told but I have never sniped a buddy's wife or girlfriend. Some people don't seem to mind doing so and by your logic....All is fair.

[Bruceswar]

There are many many coins out there. 99% of the time if I see a forum member after the coin, then I will back off the coin. I just like to show respect to the forum members.

[pendragon1998]

While I agree that no one here owes anyone consideration, like TomB, I would hope that those of us who want to be viewed as gentlemen (or ladies, as the chromosomes fall) would act in a considerate manner. So far in this hobby, I've run into some of the friendliest and most generous people I've ever met. That's not to say that I haven't run into the opposite as well.

[MBA101]

I keep my fingers tied up and try to figure things out for myself. You guys will only see things after I win or lose an auction.

[Mr Crusher]

Why not just put up a picture of the coin and say someone has it for sale or say you just found it at a yard sale.

[IGWT]

Generally speaking, I think folks should refrain from pointing out a coin that's up for auction, especially if it's a cherrypicking opportunity. First, sounding an alert takes away the reward earned by those who spend a lot of time searching for coins; and, second, sharing this kind of information can easily lead to hard feelings. Like it or not, asking a question on a public forum about a coin in a live auction doesn't give you dibs.

 

Send a PM to a couple folks if you want another opinion or two on the coin.

[Mr Crusher]

What do you all think about this coin.

Would this be a good buy...

[DC Dawg]

Let me make sure I understand the parameters.

Person A researches, locates the item, and asks the "helpful friends" of the board.

A public forum where there are anonymous readers that see these posts along with the registered users.

 

Person A gets sniped, and this is capitalism at its best.

It could happen to anyone, regardless of whether they are board members of note. Sniping is a fact of life and a legitimate practice--even if I don't subscribe to that practice.

 

All is fair in love and war so I am told but I have never sniped a buddy's wife or girlfriend.

Define fair? Should I let something I want pass by because of who is bidding? What happens if that person is sniped and loses the auction I was willing to pay more for? I backed off for known person only to lose to an unknown third-party. Is that fair?

 

What about the seller. The seller may be happy the item sold, but was it fair to the seller that did not get the benefit of my participation? The seller did not see a better return because of this. Were we fair to the seller?

 

It is your prerogative to determine whether you will participate. Since I do not snipe, I have no problems bidding against someone I know--within reason. I will keep to my budget and my target price. If I am willing the pay the price, I'll bid. Otherwise, I will let to pass.

 

One time, I did accidentally bid against my father for something. It became too expensive for me, so I passed on the item. Interestingly, I was going to buy the item for him. When we realized that this happened, we we had a good laugh.

 

Some people don't seem to mind doing so and by your logic....All is fair.

I knew someone would say this... Yes, it is fair.

It is an open market. As long as the transactions are being done legally, it is fair.

 

These are open venues. If you do not want to accept the risk, don't make the public statement. IMHO, it is like you telling me that the store down the street has a very limited supply of the hottest item and I leave my office to grab one from the shelf. Just ask all of those people who were looking for the TMX Elmo last month if it is fair!

 

That being said, I do not bid on items I am not interested in purchasing. In fact, I don't bid on many items I am interested in! I try to keep to my budget, so I pass until I am ready. I do not bid against a board member for the sake of bidding against them. There are others who will place shill bids on auctions. I don't do that, so I don't worry.

 

These are fair market values and I make no apologies for them.

 

Scott

[TomB]

I've had six scenarios occur that might fall within the parameters of this thread and I don't believe anyone did anything "wrong" in any of them. They are as follows-

 

A) Twice I have been involved where folks have posted a link to an ebay BIN auction and have then discussed the coin, but did not buy it. One case was six years ago and the coin in question was a Draped Bust Heraldic Eagle dollar that was a choice VF, but had unfortunately been made into a pin. I waited one day while a dozen folks commented on the piece, but no one hit the BIN of approximately $100. Finally, I bought the coin and sold it at the next show for substantially more money as jewelry. The second time happened four years ago with a nicely toned, nineteenth century half dollar. This coin was graded by PCGS and was being offered at about 20% over Greysheet. A slew of members, over the course of two days, hemmed and hawed over whether it was a good purchase or not and if they should purchase it. Finally, I just decided to buy it and I still own the coin.

 

B) A year ago one member, who posts only on PCGS and seems to specialize in pointing out every toned coin from another member's website, included an auction link for a gorgeous, original matte proof Lincoln cent on ebay. I had not noticed this coin prior to the thread and I didn't post to the thread, but I watched the coin all week and finally put in a substantial bid at the end of the auction. I won the coin and it is one of my favorite pieces, but I did not recognize any competing bidder user names in this case.

 

C) Six years ago I had been the high bidder on a spectacularly toned coin during the entire auction. Unfortunately for me, with one day left in the auction another member started a thread that contained a link to the coin and essentially stated "Look at this spectacularly toned coin"! The member who started the thread was not interested in bidding. I won the coin, but only after my bid was pumped up substantially by competing board members who had only learned of the coin through the thread.

 

D) Twice I have contacted fellow board members when I noticed that they were high bidder on attractive coins sold on ebay. In one instance eight years ago the other board member told me he wasn't really interested in the coin and that his bid was more of a placekeeper. I bid on that coin and won it. The second occurance was five years ago and the board member confided his high bid to me via PM and it was essentially where I valued the coin so I did not bid and he ended up winning the lot for much less than his max, which I could have pushed him up to if I desired.

 

In my opinion, no one did anything wrong in any of these auctions.

[LuvToCollect]

"If I came to the forum with a question regarding a particular auction I was bidding on and then someone jumped in and started bidding against me, I'd be a little upset, provided they wouldn't have been interested in the coin until I started talking about it."

 

Pendragons premise was clear and I have never seen the logic of arguing a point with those who live by the "ANYTHING GOES " viewpoint.

[bsshog40]

I haven't been in the position that I know of to bid against a fellow member. I don't think it would be fair to bid against someone that just asked me my opinion of a coin that they are bidding on. I myself have had alot of help with coins here, respect the members here very much, but I have also made a habit of saving the picture of the coin and just posting the pic and not the location. I think that coin collection is a hobby for all and all look for a good deal. I beleive that if enough searching is done, most will all run across or have run across the same coin at some point in it's sale of history anyway if that is a peticular coin they are looking for. I think the motto here should be "CYA" cover your a*#. I know if I find something I want bad enough, I'm not gonna advertise it!!

[texasrichard]

Good Thread,

Hope it stays civil.

 

In my case as I'm still learning I do rely on the opinions of several of the forum members. Early on (ATS) I would link the auction or site to my post and ask for opinions. It didn't take me long to figure out that doing so wasn't the brightest idea I'd ever had. I didn't blame anyone except myself although I don't think I would do the same thing to someone else if they posted the link.

 

Later I tried a different approach where I'd just post the picture but didn't reference where the coin was at. This doesn't work too well either because there are a lot of sharp cookies swimming these waters.

 

Mostly now I rely on a handful of members whom I feel are knowledgable and have demostrated the utmost respect. I usually PM them directly and have received great support. To those (you know who you are) I say THANKS !!!

 

Richard

[MAULEMALL]

I was checking out Heritage and saw a Half that I thought was under graded in an ICG holder...so I placed a bid and like the Next Day James came on and posted about a nice half that he thought was under graded and thought would be a good buy for someone and that he didn't need it so he posted a link....

 

same coin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Zoins]

Putting a placeholder bid in so people can contact you is a good idea, especially if you are known for making substantial bids. Good examples TomB.

 

Here are some thoughts:

 

Efficient markets and optimal pricing: My view is that when information hits the forum and viewers act on it, that is like information on stocks being released to the public markets. That information is now digested in the market and the item will be priced accordingly - the seller will get a more optimal price (can be better or worse) depending on the information that becomes publicly available. If the responses are negative, like if the coin is whizzed, the seller may get a lower (but more optimal) price. When interested buyers don't have all the relevant information, there is an inefficient market and the seller gets a sub-optimal price. texasrichard's practice of PMing individual members for advice is a good one if you don't want the information released publicly.

 

Education: When I post a link to an active auction, one reason can be because I don't feel I have enough information to make an educated bid and I'm seeking assistance. If I ask for help on a public forum, my number one goal is to learn so I can make better decisions on my own in the future. If someone wins the item from me, that's fine because they had the information to bid while I am seeking it. Having someone else win at a given price is also educational. Another time I may post a link to an active auction is if it's getting enough attention that the seller will most likely get the efficient market price anyway.

[SkyMan]

As in a lot of things it depends.

 

I'm also a member of the TCCS boards which has a MUCH smaller group than here, so you get to know other people even better. When the Battle Creek coins hit it was obvious they were spectacular, and if a given group of people know their stuff about a given field, in general they can all agree on what the top grouping of coins are. This led to insane money being spent on some BC material, with all of us bidding against each other.

 

My basic feeling is don't post about an auction that you are interested in bidding on. If you do you are asking for trouble.

[WinstonWare]

It's an auction and all is fair. I'd have no problem bidding against a fellow forum member. For some forum members, I'd take pleasure in it.

 

However, if I liked the forum member I may ask them how interested they are in the coin and what they were willing to pay.

 

This is funny and is pretty much how I feel. I do give special consideration to anyone that has gone out of their way to help me learn. That help and relationship is more important to me than any coin. After all, in many instances, I wouldn’t even know to bid on the coin if it wasn’t for the tutelage of the member.

[DC Dawg]

As an aside, I have bid on items that were listed by board members. I expect others to be bidding with me. But I feel comfortable bidding on the items from the folks here. So I have no problem competing with others for the items. I have not won anything, yet. But I will keep trying!

 

Scott

[michael]

it is an auction the highest bidder wins

 

does not matter it is only a coin

[James_OldeTowne]

I think the golden rule applies here. Bid against other board members if you want them to bid against you. Conversely, avoid competing bids if you want them to do so as well.

[Dcoin]

In such cases, the person looking for opinions is 'paying a price' for the information posted here. The price is an added interest in the auction. It should be motivation to become more familiar with this series and make your own conclusions.

 

 

 

Dcoin

[bsshog40]

In such cases, the person looking for opinions is 'paying a price' for the information posted here. The price is an added interest in the auction. It should be motivation to become more familiar with this series and make your own conclusions.

 

 

 

Dcoin

 

Isn't this what a forum is all about? Other peoples opinions?? This is how most of us are able to familarize ourselves with certain series, by asking questions in a forum. I would really rather compete with a member on a coin I showed, than lose money on buying a fake or cleaned coin that I know nothing about.

[TomB]

In such cases, the person looking for opinions is 'paying a price' for the information posted here. The price is an added interest in the auction. It should be motivation to become more familiar with this series and make your own conclusions.

 

 

 

Dcoin

 

Isn't this what a forum is all about? Other peoples opinions?? This is how most of us are able to familarize ourselves with certain series, by asking questions in a forum. I would really rather compete with a member on a coin I showed, than lose money on buying a fake or cleaned coin that I know nothing about.

 

This is a really good point that Dcoin brought up and that bsshog40 elaborates. I had thought of this earlier, but did not want to add it to my posts because I thought it might muddy the topic for some folks. Specifically, someone posting on these boards is asking for financial information, guidance or advice. In many or most other venues, one who asks for this type of advice will have to pay for that advice. However, many of us on the coin boards will give away valuable information to any who ask. The recipient of that valuable information has received an important service for free, but has also exposed an interest that may potentially cost him/her money.