You make the call!

[jtryka]

Over on the PCGS forum, I used to hold grading contests every month or two, and I thought it was time to do one again. The basic point of these is to have a contest that allows fellow collectors to test their grading skills (and my photography skills, so sometimes it's not easy!) and see some coins that they might not normally see. So here goes!

 

The basic rules are:

 

You have a number of images of coins (obverse and reverse) and you have to guess the grade that the "professionals" assigned to it (the grading company is also listed). You submit your guesses through PM or e-mail so as not to bias the guesses of others. The scoring goes like this: if you guess either too high or too low, the number of points you were off is your score (so if the coin's grade is MS-63 and you guess MS-65, the score is 2). If there is a designation (FB, FBL, FS, PL, etc) and you miss that part, it will add 1/2 point. So this is like golf, and the lowest score wins. In the event of a tie, I will break it with a random number generated by excel. So let the game begin!

 

1945-S Obverse (NGC)

1945-S Reverse (NGC)

1826 Obverse (ANACS)

1826 Reverse (ANACS)

1981-D Obverse (NGC)

1981-D Reverse (NGC)

1899 Obverse (NGC)

1899 Reverse (NGC)

1911-D Obverse (NGC)

1911-D Reverse (NGC)

 

The contest will end at 5:00 PM Pacific Time (8:00 Eastern Time) on Sunday, July 20. Please send me a PM of your guesses on either the NGC or Numisaddict forums, or by e-mail to jtryka@hotmail.com. The prize for this contest is a 1922 Peace Dollar! Good Luck everyone!

[jtryka]

Well, there are just a few hours left, so anyone else that wants to participate should do so soon!

[jtryka]

Well, the results are in, and it was a pretty close race with just 2 points separating Stujoe, coinman1794, BOILER78 and Oldtrader3. And the winner, with a score of 6 is: coinman1794! CONGRATULATIONS! and thanks to all 13 people who submitted guesses. Now here are the grades assigned by the services:

 

1945-S Jefferson: NGC MS-67

1826 Half: ANACS EF-45

1981-D SBA: NGC MS-65

1899 $5: NGC MS-63

1911-D Saint: NGC MS-65

 

Feel free to express your surprise or dismay at any of these grades!

[jom]

Damn. I got killed on that stupid circulated coin. I knew that was going to happen.

 

I like these "tests". Fun!

 

jom

[jtryka]

Well, sometimes it's fun to add a circulated coin just to even the field! Personally, I find circ grades in most seried to be very difficult. If anyone is interested, it seems the Jefferson, Bust half and Saint were the most difficult. Only 1 person guessed correctly on the Jefferson and Bust, while 2 guessed correctly on the Saint (5 people got the SBA and 4 got the Half eagle).

[berylcoin-migration]

XF45? Ouch! When I sent in my guesses I included a note mentioning that the circ was going to kill people (including me).

 

I actually have an ANACS XF45 1826 Half. Yours must have much more remaining luster than mine, as it seems noticeably flatter, especially on the obverse.

 

Other than that the Saint surprised me most, but I have zero experience with gold.

 

I'm actually pleasently surprised with my results on the UNC's considering my inexperience with MS coins. My Grades (I think):

 

65-I thought hard about 66

30-I though some about 35 or 40

65-woohoo

64-As close as I could hope for

63-hmmm, I guess they really are forgiving on those big soft Saints

 

Two questions:

 

Did my 15 points on the Bust land me in 13th?

 

Do you agree with the assigned grades in person?

 

BC

[coinman1794]

These were my grades. In retrospect, I can see how the 1826 got the 45 (based on the sharp reverse, the traces of luster, and the wear, which seem light, but I don't like the unnatural surfaces on it, and I called it a 40. I almost said 35. On the 1899, I could see some light scattered marks, but none seemed too distracting, so I went with 64.

 

1945-S Jefferson: NGC MS-67

1826 Half: ANACS EF-40

1981-D SBA: NGC MS-65

1899 $5: NGC MS-64

1911-D Saint: NGC MS-65

 

 

[jtryka]

OK, here are my thoughts, and please consider that since I am the owner of these coins my thoughts entail a certain level of bias.

 

The Jefferson: I have no clue! It could be a 63, a 65 or a 68 and I probably couldn't tell the difference with my limited experience in the series. If I paid a lot of money for it, I might care, but I think I paid about $20 for it, so that is pretty much the cost of grading plus 5 cents for the coin.

 

The Bust half: This is a really nice coin, good luster, and well struck. Has it been cleaned? Probably, but then again so have about 95% of the bust halves out there. ANACS did not net grade it though, and I doubt I would have either. To me, it's an honest XF.

 

The SBA: (see the Jefferson above) The only thing I would add is that since these coins were never released for circulation they should all be about MS-65.

 

The half eagle: This is just a nice honest MS-63. Very clean fields and a nice strike and luster. The difference between a 62 and 63 can be immense in this series, and this one easily clears the gulf.

 

The Saint: What can I say? Denver Saints from the teens and prior just look like [!@#%^&^]. They are weakly struck, and have pitiful luster. This is especially true from 1909 to 1914. I've yet to see a high-grade D-mint come close to an S-mint in MS-63 at least in regards to eye appeal. That said, this coin has a nice bit of luster and an ok strike, but is it a 65? It's close. I probably would grade it a 64, but I'm pretty conservative. Perhaps someday I might send this in to NCG for an appearance review and see if their opinion has changed.

[jom]

I was also fooled on the $5. The picture was a bit dark in the central area of the face so I couldn't tell. Plus, with high end gold LUSTER is the main element, which is difficult to capture in a picture.

 

jom

[Oldtrader3]

Should have gone with my gut call on the Half (XF45), instead of figuring ANACS would overgrade it at AU50. Nickels are not my field, but I was close. What can I say? I do collect Saints and it looked like a stone cold MS64 to me, but your point is well taken that "D"'s are soft strike and the services give them some latitude on luster. Plus, I under grade most of slabbed gold that is coming out of the services now anyhow.

 

Interesting test. Certainly better than most of the "What Grade is this (Modern) Coin" genre questions. It also shows how difficult gold is to grade, period, let alone with scans (although good scans).

[Please Delete-migration]

Good contest. That slab scratch on the SBA really killed me.

[JD-migration]

A lot of fun, challenging and very useful too as many deals for coins are made using e-media with pictures. THANKS

 

 

[gmarguli]

1945-S Jefferson: NGC MS-67

1826 Half: ANACS EF-45

1981-D SBA: NGC MS-65

1899 $5: NGC MS-63

1911-D Saint: NGC MS-65

 

 

This is interesting. I'd like to hear why people graded the coins the way they did.

 

I guessed the grading services would grade them as follows:

 

1945-S MS66

1826 VF30

1981-D MS66

1899 MS63

1911 MS64

 

I also made the comment that I would personally have graded coins #1, #2, & #3 as 1 grade lower, but I felt the services would be a little more lax.

 

The 1945-S 5¢ is nice, but that hit on the neck bothers me. Also, I couldn't tell, but I thought his high cheek and jaw was lightly scuffed, which is usually the death for a coin getting into a high grade slab. If that isn't on the coin, then MS67 isn't out of line.

 

The 1826 50¢ I graded VF30 and figured it probably was closer to VF25. We were all at a disadvantage with this coin, since we have to grade it based on detail and not luster and detail. Personally opinion, if it is in an XF45 slab - never crack it out.

 

The 1981-D SBA looked to have nice luster, that why I gave it the benefit of the doubt and said MS66.

 

The 1899 $5 appeared to be a middle of the road MS63. A hit on the chin and in front of the chin coupled with scattered marks and ticks seems to make it an no doubt MS63.

 

The 1911 $20 as an MS65? The hit by the obverse stars and the marks on the reverse sun knock it out of the MS65 grade for me. To me it is a solid MS64. However, the grading services and I have never agreed on grading gold. I'm usually grading the coins much stricter than they do. Explains why I've been searching for a NICE MS66 Saint for an eon.

 

[jtryka]

Greg,

 

I tend to agree with you on the Saint, and I might send it in for a downgrade and I might send this coin in for a potential upgrade as I think it has a shot at a 65 (right now it's in a 64 holder).

 

1928 Obverse

1928 Reverse

[Oldtrader3]

Here is a 1926-P Saint, NGC-MS65. Same era, same finish for comparison.

[Oldtrader3]

Now the 1926-P MS65 Saint reverse image.

[darktone]

Sorry I am a little late on my grades.

• [*]MS65 [*]VF35 [*]MS65 [*]MS63 [*]MS64 The circulated coin got me too! The nickel and SBA are just guesses as I have no clue when it comes to these. I knew the grade on the 11-D but to be fair I graded it on how it looked in the picture. Jeff do this again! mike

[LEAKYCOIN]

1945 S MS-68

1820 VF-20

1981 D MS-65

1899 MS-64

1911 D MS-63

 

KINGKOIN KING OF KOINS

 

[cladking]

The '81-D is really nice. You wouldn't have to look too hard to find one with fewer marks since this is the easiest of the '81 SBA's to find clean, but you'd have your work cut out for you to find one with nicer surfaces. It should get bumped up to MS-66.

[jtryka]

Mike,

 

I'll try to do this again, but first I need to buy some new coins!

 

Clad,

 

Thanks for the compliment, I have all 3 1981 SBAs, I cut them out of a mint set and they are now in a whitman folder. I bought this one mainly to add to my type set registry and since it was about the same price as a submission fee, I just bought it.

[jtryka]

By the way, for comparative purposed, I just saw this 1911-D Obverse 1911-D Reverse on Heritage's website, it's certified by NGC as MS-67 asking $17K! From the photos, it doesn't look much better than a lot of other dates in MS-65.

[jom]

Your link didn't work. Is it this one?

 

I think this one is nicer. With Saints, it is often that the color becomes important. You will sometimes see a slight toning that makes the higher grade. It "seems" to have better luster too, but who knows with pictures?

 

jom

[jom]

Reverse

[MAULUMALL]

I think she is a stud.

67....How do I know with that pic.All I saw was 1 small tick on the wing of the reverse.

 

$13.000 and they give that pic.Actually it looks like a scan to me.

[jtryka]

I fixed my link, not sure what happened But the links are fixed and should take you to the BIG pics.