OUTRAGE!

[physics-fan3.14]

I went to the NGC brunch today, and let me be the first to say Thank You to NGC for a very good lunch and a fun opportunity to meet other collectors. I had a good time, and I enjoyed it.

 

However, I want to bring before you, my friends, one of the things mentioned: they actually talked about making the boards a paid service. That's right: the idea of making us pay for the boards was bandied about. OUTRAGE!!! I don't think they were seriously considering the idea, and it was only mentioned in passing, but let me be the first to say that I will not pay for the boards, no matter how they do it. I can't afford to join the Collectors Society, and I generally refuse to pay to go to any website, not just NGC. I predict attendance will go way down, and numismatics will loose one of the finest boards out there.

 

NGC, DON'T DO IT. BE GOOD TO US! FORGET THE IDEA ALTOGETHER!!!

[Zoins]

Do they mean:

 

(a) the boards will be included in the current Collectors Society fee?

 

(b) the boards will require a separate, additional fee?

 

I imagine many people who first learn about TPGs and slabs first post here because they get or hear about a NGC encapsulated coin. Then they come here to find out more. If they find they can't access the boards without joining, they may lose interest. Just something to think about.

[Bruceswar]

I also agree that charging for the forums would drive alot of people away. Not only that what about the person who just has a few questions and wants to ask. I doubt they will want to pay for a forum to get the questions answered. Bad Idea if you ask me.

[bsshog40]

Everyone wants to make a buck on anything that's popular. Hopefully they won't make the mistake here.

[gmarguli]

Moronic idea. There are several other free boards out there. People would just move to them and ignore these.

 

CCG can use the forums to produce revenue and reduce expenses for it, but that doesn't mean charging its users.

[jgrinz]

I also agree that charging for the forums would drive alot of people away. Not only that what about the person who just has a few questions and wants to ask. I doubt they will want to pay for a forum to get the questions answered. Bad Idea if you ask me.

 

I agree with him ^

 

[LuvToCollect]

It my memory serves me right, didn't another TPG suffer in the publicity arena over board changes recently.

[MikeKing]

The board needs to be entirely free, otherwise it will lose a lot of people (and deservedly so), and it simply cannot afford to do that. A collector board by it's very nature needs to be entirely free.

[falcon-migration]

Sometimes, bottom-line isn't always the answer, especially on a board such as this where networking creates new investors, collectors, and dealers. Personally, I wouldn't be a part of the board if there was a fee.

[cpm9ball]

I, too, attended the Brunch and the oriental servings were great. Thank you, NGC! I was thinking about returning for seconds, but I wanted Shane to make the first move so I wouldn't be called a pig. Unfortunately, Shane wasn't feeling all too well, so I passed on seconds. But, it sure was good and the cheescake was excellent.

 

As for the issue that was briefly mentioned about possibly charging for the boards, I am also opposed to it for a totally different reason than those expressed, here. If someone, anyone pays for the right to participate in this form of message board, it would open a whole can of worms about who has or hasn't the right to say whatever they want, whenever and whereever they want. I think we would see an overall decline in the quality of many posts just for that reason. I come here because I like the people and I want to learn whatever I can, but I don't want to have to sift through a lot of garbage.

 

Granted, everyone here likes to relax and have fun with some of the members, but that makes this a nice place to visit when you don't have to look over your shoulder all of the time. I have to commend NGC and I stated this at the luncheon, they currently allow us quite alot of leeway in expressing our opinions with very, very little intervention. Respect works both ways, and they are certainly giving us their share.

 

Please, keep the boards free!

 

Chris

[pendragon1998]

For the record, I too am totally against the boards becoming a paid service. There are some services that should just be free, like bread with your meals in a restaurant, free access to a bathroom (in the US), and free access to online forums. These forums gather many people into (or back into) the hobby, and the information discussed here by experienced members is decidedly pro-NGC. Many beginner or low-budget collectors would not or could not pay for access to the forums. They would rather spend their money on coins. By providing them with these free advertising venues, they will still spend their small budgets on coins, but more than likely, they will be NGC-slabbed coins.

 

And Europeans: free access to public restrooms is a hallmark of civilization. Provided they're clean. Take note.

[John Martinez]

I also agree that charging for the forums would drive alot of people away. Not only that what about the person who just has a few questions and wants to ask. I doubt they will want to pay for a forum to get the questions answered. Bad Idea if you ask me.

 

I agree with him ^

 

 

So do I....

[dena]

Hi Everybody!

 

First I would like to thank everyone who made it out to the luncheon on Saturday. It was a pleasure to meet all of you and see that many are becoming regulars at our FUN lunches. We look forward to doing it again next year!

 

Thanks also for your feedback here on this issue. I do however want to clarify one point. The idea to make the boards a paid service has nothing to do with the revenue that it might generate. The idea was born out of the problem we sometimes see with anonymous users who create accounts specifically for the purpose of pushing agendas or to make patently false statements about our companies (or anyone on the boards) without accountability. This is an issue that we’ve seen now and then on different parts of the message board (not just the coin section) and we’ve been kicking around ideas about if/how we should handle it. Requiring a more detailed registration (either through a paid Collectors Society membership or a small usage fee) would mean less anonymity.

 

Aside from any success in the day to day business of grading coins, we are very proud of what is being built through the Collectors Society, registry and message boards – a real community where collectors can find support, education and friendship. Our intention is to encourage growth of this community while minimizing (if we can) the negative elements that sometimes accompany the positive in the growth process.

 

Thanks again for your feedback.

[cpm9ball]

Hi Everybody!

 

First I would like to thank everyone who made it out to the luncheon on Saturday. It was a pleasure to meet all of you and see that many are becoming regulars at our FUN lunches. We look forward to doing it again next year!

 

Thanks also for your feedback here on this issue. I do however want to clarify one point. The idea to make the boards a paid service has nothing to do with the revenue that it might generate. The idea was born out of the problem we sometimes see with anonymous users who create accounts specifically for the purpose of pushing agendas or to make patently false statements about our companies (or anyone on the boards) without accountability. This is an issue that we’ve seen now and then on different parts of the message board (not just the coin section) and we’ve been kicking around ideas about if/how we should handle it. Requiring a more detailed registration (either through a paid Collectors Society membership or a small usage fee) would mean less anonymity.

 

Aside from any success in the day to day business of grading coins, we are very proud of what is being built through the Collectors Society, registry and message boards – a real community where collectors can find support, education and friendship. Our intention is to encourage growth of this community while minimizing (if we can) the negative elements that sometimes accompany the positive in the growth process.

 

Thanks again for your feedback.

 

Hi, Dena! Were there any leftovers? No, on second thought, don't tell me!

 

I can appreciate those concerns and they are very important, but I don't think that charging a fee is beneficial to the body, as a whole. It would be like "spiting the face by cutting off the nose" if you get my drift. Why can't you make registration mandatory for all anonymous and/or potentially bogus users? You could require confidential information that would only be available to NGC staff. You could even go so far as to "Verify" them with banking information in much the same way that eBay does.

 

Chris

[DC Dawg]

Dena:

 

Thank you for your candor for this issue.

 

Let me make a few suggestions to allow you and the Collectors' Society to consider

• For those who are members of the Collectors' Society, have their registration to the boards tied to their membership information.
• For those people who are members of other organizations with direct submission rights, like I am with NGC as an ANA member, tie their registration on the boards to their direct submission account.
• For those who are in neither catagory, have them register with the same information as required for the previous two catagories. This way, you have the same information on those posters.

Before this type of registration is required, it would behoove the Collectors' Society to craft a very clear privacy policy that would declare that the information will be used for internal identification purposes and help enforce an acceptible usage policy (AUP) that the Collectors' Society (CS) will also clearly write. The privacy policy must state how the information will be used and, if CS wants to consider using them for marketing, have an opt-out provision.

 

If there are problems, CS must have a clear AUP that can be enforced to protect CS's assets--I am sure the CS does not want law suits or negative publicity. Users of the message boards would have to "click to sign" acceptance of the specific policies with acknowledgment of reading the privacy policy. For the AUP, it should specify what it acceptible behavior and what will not be tolerated. CS should be clear on these policies and the ramifications for their violation. CS then has to enforce those policies on a consistent basis.

 

Judging from my experieneces with the numismatic boards, it does not appear to be too many problems--which I think is a credit to the membership. However, using my background in information security and policy (I am a published author in this area), I know problems will occur and it is best to be prudent on having the policies to handle them.

 

To help keep these boards open, at least for the numismatics side, CS can contact me for advice. I love having these boards as a resource and virtual discussion amongst some very good people and would like to see it continue. I am willing to help to keep this resource available. CS can PM or email me to talk about this further.

 

Scott

[DC Dawg]

And Europeans: free access to public restrooms is a hallmark of civilization. Provided they're clean. Take note.

Having not been overseas in over 10 years, are you saying they charge for unclean public restrooms? That wasn't the case when I visited England in 1994. But that was 13 years ago and things may have changed.

 

Scott

[MikeKing]

Dena, you put it so beautifully and unoffensively. There's got to be a way, however, that doesn't involve $. I think this could put just another obstacle up for the many people who need to or are wanting to learn, and for those that have never set foot into this hobby/industry.

 

I think charging $ will also deter some people who are already here from continuing to participate.

 

When Michael (Pendragon) mentioned the issue of bread coming with the meals free of charge, he is not at all off base. There is a steak house I used to go to that started charging for the potato. Do you believe they were charging for a lousy potato? I mean, really, how much does a potato cost? At $30+ a steak, I didn't think I'd get a dish with just a steak on it. It looked so empty!

 

It was empty, and they lost business. Why would I eat there when there was a German restaurant not much further away that had Oom Pah Pah in the background and served a complete meal with enough left over for take home for the dog for less than $25.00?

 

No need to guess which restaurant survived and which one didn't.

 

I'm not saying this as a form of concealed threat, but rather, I'm trying to emphasize that being generous to your guests propagates the patronage.

 

NGC's competitor didn't get the nick name of 'the evil empire' for no good reason.

 

Maybe laying out the issue and seeking suggestions from the board members could help find a solution.

[dena]

Thanks Chris and Scott!

 

This kind of dialogue is exactly what we hoped for when we raised the issue at lunch. We don't necessarily want to charge a fee...that was just one idea. Basically we are trying to determine what information we should require to validate a legitimate user without making it a barrier for prospective participants. We appreciate your ideas.

[cpm9ball]

 

 

Thanks Chris and Scott!

 

This kind of dialogue is exactly what we hoped for when we raised the issue at lunch. We don't necessarily want to charge a fee...that was just one idea. Basically we are trying to determine what information we should require to validate a legitimate user without making it a barrier for prospective participants. We appreciate your ideas.

 

I vote for Scott's ideas and offered assistance.

 

 

Chris

[pendragon1998]

I certainly have no problem with a somewhat more involved registration process, provided the information required is reasonable and is kept secure. There was recently an issue in the news with one of those breakfast restaurants, where they'd had a lot of eat and dash problems. One of the restaurants started requiring the patrons to leave a driver's license with a security guard before sitting down to eat. I'd never do that; not only is it insulting, but it's risky in today's atmosphere of ID theft. By extension, I'd happily provide reasonable info to NGC in exchange for them providing the forums, but there are limits to the amount of information I would be willing to furnish. Just another point to consider.

 

Dena, I think half of this forum is in love with you!

[DC Dawg]

Dena, I think half of this forum is in love with you!

 

[kryptonitecomics]

The food was excellent....and the company even better......but that chocolate moose desert.......well let's just say it was to die for.......oh and they did talk about coins and the variety plus service changes so I hear

 

 

 

NGC proved once again that they are top notch as they don't lure folks in under false pretences and then brow beat them with a hidden agenda. The discussions are always laid back.....except for Chris spouting off about some 400 lb boxed set he brought to be graded......and was turned away from the submissions desk

[LuvToCollect]

I like the idea of the accountability and protection factors Dena posed and Scott's suggestions to remedy them. From what I have seen the troublemakers are quickly identified and have been dealt with swiftly. There is certainly a solution that will address both NGC's and the board members concerns.

[robec1347]

 

Thanks Chris and Scott!

 

This kind of dialogue is exactly what we hoped for when we raised the issue at lunch. We don't necessarily want to charge a fee...that was just one idea. Basically we are trying to determine what information we should require to validate a legitimate user without making it a barrier for prospective participants. We appreciate your ideas.

 

I vote for Scott's ideas and offered assistance.

 

 

Chris

 

I agree with Chris and Scott. Further more, I would be more than happy and honored to be of any assistance to them or anyone else that needs it.

[Here]

I say there should be a fee of $100 per post!

[jgrinz]

I say there should be a fee of $100 per post!

 

When you pay your $54,200.00 none of us will have to so Feel free to make a donation to NGC to keep the boards free.

 

[Here]

Actually, I forgot to add it is only applied to those with Carpal Tunnel. On a serious note, I wouldn't mind paying a one time fee of $25 as long as it made the boards Private. Meaning, NO one gets to see ANY posts on the NGC Boards until after they log on. In other words, ban the lurkers.

 

 

 

Jerry

[Zoins]

I wouldn't mind paying a one time fee of $25 as long as it made the boards Private. Meaning, NO one gets to see ANY posts on the NGC Boards until after they log on. In other words, ban the lurkers.

I don't think requiring a fee will get rid of lurkers. Dictionary.com defines lurk as:

lurk: Chiefly Computers. to observe an ongoing discussion without participating in it.

Using this definition, you will still have lurkers after requiring a fee because not everyone who pays will participate in discussions. You really can't force people to participate unless you revoke their account for not posting in a certain time frame but I don't think anyone wants that, do they?

[michael]

keep the boards free but to maintain waht dena said people who create false identifications multiples

 

i think that registered users have to verify by drivers licence and some other form of identificaztion

 

also you have to have your full name under your avaitar

 

or i would charge a fee it would be well worth it if you got a computer and ytou then can afford to pay 25 dollars a year for the posting thing as then for example just do not buy coffee at a coffee shop for a month this will pay for your board fees or you pay 25 dollars for membership and you get one free grading coupon tht needs to be used in 30 days

[Bruceswar]

Michael what about the younger ones with no Licence?