My coin store experience today........GEEZZ

[SethChandler-migration]

OK fellows, here the deal:

 

I walked into a store here in downtown San Francisco. I've been there two or three times. Really a great looking store, exactly how you would describe an old fashioned shop. It's inside a nice art deco building......great old time feel it. Even the owner looks like he's straight out from the 1950's. Old Stack's, B&M auction catalogues laying around everywhere They have all kinds of raw collector coins.....good stuff, 09-S VDB's, 89-CC's etc. Indian Cents to Morgans.....decent type and gold selections too. Very well organized, his flips are typed up.

 

Now here's where it gets weird....

 

He had maybe about 2 dozen raw coins that he had cracked out of PCGS and NGC holders and just marked in on the paper insert. For example, a 1936 Half was marked PCGS graded MS65, it really was a 65 but I just found it odd why anyone would do this and not at least keep the insert with the coin. Strange?

 

Second part, I don't really COLLECT anything but I enjoy all US coins. So ask if he has any GSA Dollars, I've always liked CC coins, he says no, but he says has a bunch that he just cracked out! So he whips out this box with about 50 BU CCs. 78, 80,81,82,83,84,85,90,91......yes there were 2 91-CCs and 1 90-CCs! This guy really hates plastic of any form. Alot of great coins in there...the problem is he overprices his coins bigtime. Not really overgrades, but rather overpricing. If a coin sheets for $85....CW trends is $100.....CU price is $115, he'll have the coin marked $155. Really! I pulled out two coins, 80-CC marked MS63 $410 and a 82-CC for $160. After some idle chit chat while I looked through his coins I asked him.....I really interested in these two....what is your best price for the pair. "The price thats marked" was his reply! And a sat down, and ignored me. Wow, never had that happen before. But no way am I gonna let up yet. A few minutes later, I pick up the smaller priced coin and very politely ask.....I really like this coin and I agree with your opinion that its a MS63 but I fell it may be just a bit overpriced for a 63, is there anyway we can work on a better price. "If you don't like the price don't buy it" Grumpy strikes again. He points to a sign on the wall. "All prices are firm"

 

I just don't get it, I'm prepared to spend several thousand dollars, I've been in his store a few times and made some purchases but I've never been treated like that anywhere. What keeps me coiming back is he has great fresh coins in his store.

 

Has anyone experienced anything like this? What do you think about someone who runs a coin store like this?

 

Don't get me wrong, he actually his a pleasant fellow to chat with...it just when it comes to pricing his coins......he is a wreck.

 

 

Seth

[keithdagen]

I've run into a dealer like this at a local show -- asked about a Liberty Cap cent in VG-08 at a show because it had a great planchet and a lot of detail for the grade. Common date, no funky varieties, certified by PCGS. Quoted a VF price on the piece. Another dealer later told me that this dealer overpaid for everything, so subsequently ended up struggling to get rid of inventory.

[gmarguli]

Maybe you haven't purchased enough for him to get the better prices? It's possible he doesn't want to deal on price with a buyer who hasn't done business with him before.

 

He might also do a lot of business with tourists. I remember goig to coin shops in Europe and they usually dealt with tourists and priced the coins accordingly.

 

As for fresh coins, does it really matter? A fresh $100 coin priced at $175 is worse than a recycled $100 coins priced at $100.

 

There is a dealer out here who is like this guy. The price is as marked and don't insult him if you want to pay less. However, if the coin has moved up in value since it was priced, expect to pay the new current price. The opposite is not true.

 

Avoid dealers like this!

[MikeKing]

He should've discounted the coins for having cracked them out of the holders.

He's up to something. You're better off.

[truthteller]

Seth,

 

When I used to live in the Bay Area in the very early 80's, the guy had a store near union square. I forgot his name, but it's the same guy. About 1982, he moved to the Hobart building on Market street. He has always been the exact way you describe. He is a very old school coin person, and has developed a clientel that doesn't quibble about price. I had visited his store for about 4 years, and learned very early that his prices are firm. I even remember that little sign he had on the counter. He always had very high end coins for the grade and never was considered a slab person. He was always very polite and knowlegeable, but first and foremost, no quibbling about price. It was his store and his way of doing business. Too keep on negotiating again and again would be considered rude by his old school standards. Just understand that every time you go to his store, he will not budge, so there is no sense in asking for a discount. I had purchased many a coin from him that are very high end and worth the money and eventually slabbed for one to two grades higher than what he graded the coins.

 

TRUTH

[SethChandler-migration]

Truth...your dead on. That's the same guy. Lots of nice raw coins, right? Nice coins for the grade,.....and like you said a few that will grade higher. But I never experienced anyone just outright shutting the door to any form of negotiating. (Isn't there some book I can buy on the subject?) Like you said, real old school, his shop, his rules. What kind of coins did you buy?

 

 

Seth

[jtryka]

It seems like he must have had something you really wanted or else you probably wouldn't be this excited about this! Seriously though, dealers are people just like the rest of us. At a show a few months back I wanted to sell a coin, bids raw at $175, I wanted at least $150, and the dealer only offered $125, so I walked. He didn't chase after me, he didn't try to negotiate more, and I doubt he started an internet thread about me. If he doesn't want to deal, just move on. You may find something that you like and both agree on price, but if not, get on with life and look for another coin to buy.

 

I had a dealer in Portland, and the first few times I went, I thought his coins were overpriced and he would budge, so I left empty handed. Later, we developed a great relationship, and I helped him professionally, and he took care of me. It turned out that a lot of his coins were overpriced at first glance, but after a while I learned that every one was priced high for a reason, whether conservative grading, exceptional condition, or that the coin was truly difficult to find. As our friendship strengthened, he began discounting everything I bought practically, without me even asking! So treat dealers as people, as fellow professionals. I think too many collectors today have a Wal-mart/used car salesman mentality when it comes to coins. You want to walk in, get the lowest possible price and then walk out of the store, never to see the person again. Maybe I am old school, but every dealer that I've ever spent serious money with, I have developed a professional relationship with, one of mutual respect. I think the hobby would be better off if more of us adopted that approach: collectors would more carefully choose the best, most honest dealers to buy from, and the lousy dealers would become used car salesmen.

[EVillageProwler]

Good post, Jeff. Good message. It's important to keep the notion of mutually earned respect and the metaphor of the used car salesman in mind.

 

I think a lot of big-time dealers get jaded because it's a tough biz, with tough professional colleagues and a mixed bag of customers the sum of which can toughen even the hoariest evergreen.

 

EVP

 

[291fifth]

Sounds to me like he has choice coins, knows it, and prices accordingly. I actually like his firm price strategy. His cracking out of the slabs indicates to me that he has built up a clientel that expects properly graded coins and gets them. This is highly untypical in the coin market as a high percentage of raw coins in dealer cases are overgraded or have problems. (The typical dealer today has a stock that is heavy with low end raw coins and/or slabbed coins that finally, after 20 or so resubmissions, made "his" grade. Either that or he has little but Morgan dollars and common gold.)

 

The real question here may be "what does he pay if choice coins are offered to him for sale"?

Does he make a realistic offer? Does he only wait for the widow to come in and say the magic words..."The were my late husband's coins, I just want to sell them for cash". Or does he, like most dealers, say "How much do you want?, hoping that you are desperate for cash and will low-ball the amount?

[braddick]

I don't know this Dealer but I already like him. I guess he could raise all his coin prices up 20% and then allow collectors to haggle down to the price they're at now (make the Collector feel better?) but his no nonesense approach seems to serve him well.

At least you know when you walk out of his shop that you didn't get a worse deal than anyone else.

[Beijim]

Good post about building relationships with dealers rather than expecting them to be able to compete with eBay 24-7. I do, however, have one comment:

 

[and] the lousy dealers would become used car salesmen.

 

It's always possible that they were used car salesmen.

 

Beijim

 

[CarlWohlforth]

I wish I could find buyers willing to pay top price without question. I guess this guy has built up enough customers so he doesn't need to haggle. I would like to look through his stuff. But if I couldn't come near a deal on anything I wouldn't go back, why waste my time?

[DWLange]

Seth,

 

As a San Francisco native, I know the dealer about whom you wrote. His prices are indeed firm, but I always found his inventory to be a cut above that of most shops. There were a few times when I had to pass on a purchase because of the cost, but then I never regretted any of the purchases I did make.

 

It's expensive to maintain a good inventory and replenish it, particularly so in an attractive and convenient location. The price marked may reflect not only his cost for the coin and his overhead, but also the value of his taste and expertise, both of which are frequently lacking in coin shop owners.