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Grades back from NGC!

Started by Leothelion,

19 posts in this topic

Leothelion

Leothelion

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2507021-001 1961 50C PF ART TONING

2507021-002 2000 P $1 MS ART TONING

2507021-003 1944 D 5C MS66

2507021-004 1946 D 5C MS ART TONING

2507021-005 1938 S 5C MS ART TONING

 

Those were the only 5 coins I could find using the number you gave.

Thanks again jtryka.

 

Hi everyone

I apologize for my absence but who really cares, right! 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Obviously, the 1961 Franklin proof came from a proof set, a set that I bought for my wife's birth year. It was slightly toned before I removed it from the set and placed it into a mylar 2x2 cardboard (cb) holder. I then stored the coin along with many other coins in one of those brown oblong 2x2 boxes back in the mid 1990's. Sometime a couple of years ago as I was looking over my collection of coins, as I quite often do, I noticed the proof half had done some more toning. I was trying to prevent that when I removed it from the set. Upon closer examination, the sharp rim of the half had cut the mylar of the 2x2 cb holder and had somehow creased it diagonally from 7 to 1 o'clock across the coin. This long thin area toned to a basic color of blue to purple. The rest of the coin toned to a vibrant orange-red color. I had no doubts whatsoever that this coin was naturally toned! However, possibly from improper storage. This proof coin IMHO, is a very highly eye appealing proof coin that toned naturally beyond my control. What do you think? As per the circumstances I described above, is this artificially toning a coin?

 

The 2000-P Sac was bought last year from a dealer from a coin show. The obverse has a russet (brown with a red tinge) toning while the reverse is of an golden orange toning. Two sides, different colors of toning must mean it's artificial. Any thoughts on this?

 

Same thing for the 1938-S, two sides, different colors of toning! Obverse is bluish while the reverse is reddish orange. I had some doubts on this one and the 1944-D.

 

The 1946-D was cracked out of a PCGS MS64FS holder. It has a heavy dense, streaked red toning both sides! It's a very stunning example of this date!

 

The 1944-D was cracked out of a SEGS MS65 5 step holder. The toning on this coin is all over the place with splotches of single colors in separate areas of the coin. I had my highest doubts with the toning as I couldn't imagine how the arrangement of the different colors occured. But this coin is of superb quality as you can see the following link. If anything, it should have received a star designation and higher grade as this coin is truly a stunning example of this date.

 

web page

 

All these submissions were the early bird freebees. The 44-d will be cracked out as I have less than a half dozen coins in NGC holders

 

Any thoughts?

 

Leo

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Hoot

Hoot

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I think Peacegate has made them swing the pendulum the opposite way. Now they'll be too conservative about holdering toned coins. This sucks.

 

Hoot

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MikeKing

MikeKing

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Hi everyone

I apologize for my absence but who really cares, right! 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

 

Hey Leo, was wondering what happened to you. Been gone awhile myself because of a ill health and personal tragedy. No one seemed to give a damn anyway, but that doesn't mean they don't...I guess. It's like watching television when your on the death bed (and no, I'm not on my death bed) and seeing these advertisements with everyone smiling and selling stuff while youre reality is wondering if Blue Cross is going to approve your life saving hospitalization, but, I guess, life does just go on.

 

Anyway, actually, I do care, and wondered about you (actually I wondered about you even when you were here 27_laughing.gif) because usually, though not always, people don't just drop out unless something major is happening. Glad to see you back.

 

Michael

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gmarguli

gmarguli

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I think Peacegate has made them swing the pendulum the opposite way. Now they'll be too conservative about holdering toned coins. This sucks.

 

Hoot

 

Probably just the unusual looking ones and then they'll forget about it soon enough. It's not the first time and won't be the last. Having said that, I just got back a submission that really makes me wonder. I had two coins bagged for Altered Surfaces. A 1956 proof Franklin. It's got a super deep cameo and it's blast white. Not sure what is altered about it. The surfaces look completely normal. And then there was a 1953 proof Lincoln. Wonderful deep cameo. I cut this coin from the original proof set (which was purchased in its sealed box). makepoint.gif

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Leothelion

Leothelion

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I think Peacegate has made them swing the pendulum the opposite way. Now they'll be too conservative about holdering toned coins. This sucks.

 

Hoot

 

Hi everyone

 

I've also been working on my websites and doing some time abroad.

 

What does a company do other than conduct a business to satisfy their stockholders and profit. Does anyone actually believe a company is going to drive itself into the ground with something (like their guarantee) as risky as determining NT from AT coins?

The CEO most likely frequents the grading rooms to alert the others whenever there's a smallest hint of a drop in their stock prices! Sure they can say that they do pay out on their mistakes but to what percent and averages are they working with?

I could go on and on about my beliefs but something along the lines of a non-profit organization is needed, to establish itself without stockholders but with volunteers for limited income where profit is not a factor. We could have 1000's of coin graders in a TGS across the nation! Eliminate the quarantee and there goes the inflated coin values! The end to people spending stupid money for pop top slabs.

I have mixed feelings about the results but me thinks they'll be oft again for further opinions! 27_laughing.gif

 

I'll try to post some pics soon! I also welcome you guys back as well! wink.gif

 

Leo

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IGWT

IGWT

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I have about 10 to 15 toned coins to submit to NGC........now I am not so sure I want to due to the current perceptions of toned coins

 

Are current perceptions accurate perceptions. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

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jtryka

jtryka

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I think Peacegate has made them swing the pendulum the opposite way. Now they'll be too conservative about holdering toned coins. This sucks.

 

Hoot

 

Hi everyone

 

I've also been working on my websites and doing some time abroad.

 

What does a company do other than conduct a business to satisfy their stockholders and profit. Does anyone actually believe a company is going to drive itself into the ground with something (like their guarantee) as risky as determining NT from AT coins?

The CEO most likely frequents the grading rooms to alert the others whenever there's a smallest hint of a drop in their stock prices! Sure they can say that they do pay out on their mistakes but to what percent and averages are they working with?

I could go on and on about my beliefs but something along the lines of a non-profit organization is needed, to establish itself without stockholders but with volunteers for limited income where profit is not a factor. We could have 1000's of coin graders in a TGS across the nation! Eliminate the quarantee and there goes the inflated coin values! The end to people spending stupid money for pop top slabs.

I have mixed feelings about the results but me thinks they'll be oft again for further opinions! 27_laughing.gif

 

I'll try to post some pics soon! I also welcome you guys back as well! wink.gif

 

Leo

 

To be fair Leo, NGC is a privately held company, so unlike some other TPGs that are owned publicly, NGC likely does not let daily fluctuations in stock price determine policy. However, they still have a focus on profits, so to the extent that actions hurt of help the bottom line, they will impact decisions, though more likely with a longer-term point of view.

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Mozin

Mozin

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Just another case convincing me to only buy encapsulated coins. Let someone else go through the grading service hassle.

 

Sorry about your body bags.

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Leothelion

Leothelion

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Just another case convincing me to only buy encapsulated coins. Let someone else go through the grading service hassle.

 

Sorry about your body bags.

 

Oh God does it hurts! confused.gif I'm just devastated! tonofbricks.gif I don't know how I'll ever recover from this bad news! yeahok.gif.................Oh well confused-smiley-013.gif, another reason why the smart collectors always "buy the coin and not the holder!" acclaim.gifheadbang.gifyay.gif

 

Leo 27_laughing.gif

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

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I have about 10 to 15 toned coins to submit to NGC........now I am not so sure I want to due to the current perceptions of toned coins

 

Are current perceptions accurate perceptions. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

I don't believe so.....and I don't know NGC's thoughts on the matter but if they read any of the forums they are going to get a sense from the small population of collectors that a high percentage feel that TPG holders are just full of AT coins that got by them. I think it's total garbage and don't believe that for a second....but I could see NGC trying to be a little more conservative on toners for a month to try to settle down the fickle mob......? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

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Leothelion

Leothelion

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A PCGS nickel gets bagged for ART color and a SEGS colorfully toned nickel gets holdered. confused-smiley-013.gif

 

( thumbsup2.gif )

 

Grades back from NGC!

 

Well folks! I've just spent better than an hour trying to post some pics here and I've given up! But not all is lost! Please click on the following link above and follow me along. If it works, look for the photo album, Grades back from NGC, in the upper left corner. You will need to click on the little white arrow to see the list of coins. If you get that far, be sure to familiarize yourself with the navigation controls. Hit the pause button! Then use the forward button to control the pictures.

The first coin was the former PCGS MS64FS that I cracked out and NGC BB it for artificial toning. The toning is very complex and stunning!

The second Jefferson nickel, the former 1944-D SEGS MS65 was graded by NGC as a MS66! NGC has graded 35676 war nickels of which only 34269 have been graded the same and higher for all the war nickels. Can you imagine that many nickels look like this 44-D and better? This would be mind boggling if you can believe that!

The next nickel is the 1938-S. Two sides, two different colors of toning! What do you think?

The 1961 proof was also BB for artificial toning. It was difficult to photograph but please refer to first post for the rest of the story for this coin.

And lastly, the 2000-P SAC dollar, obverse has a light russet toning while the reverse has a light orange-red colors to it. I guess it wasn't caked on heavy enough to be NT!

 

Leo

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gmarguli

gmarguli

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The first coin was the former PCGS MS64FS that I cracked out and NGC BB it for artificial toning. The toning is very complex and stunning!

 

...and artificial. Sorry, but the services love to call this type of toning artificial. I would have been surprised if it actually slabbed.

 

 

The next nickel is the 1938-S. Two sides, two different colors of toning! What do you think?

 

Artificial. Same as the first. Same method to produce the toning.

 

 

The 1961 proof was also BB for artificial toning. It was difficult to photograph but please refer to first post for the rest of the story for this coin.

 

Looks like real toning. NGC seems to bag the reddish toned proofs while PCGS will slab them. Not sure why. The toning isn't usually attractive on these.

 

 

And lastly, the 2000-P SAC dollar, obverse has a light russet toning while the reverse has a light orange-red colors to it. I guess it wasn't caked on heavy enough to be NT!

 

No idea if AT or NT, but it can be reproduced fairly easy, so that is probably why they bagged it for AT.

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Leothelion

Leothelion

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The first coin was the former PCGS MS64FS that I cracked out and NGC BB it for artificial toning. The toning is very complex and stunning!

 

...and artificial. Sorry, but the services love to call this type of toning artificial. I would have been surprised if it actually slabbed.

 

 

The next nickel is the 1938-S. Two sides, two different colors of toning! What do you think?

 

Artificial. Same as the first. Same method to produce the toning.

 

 

The 1961 proof was also BB for artificial toning. It was difficult to photograph but please refer to first post for the rest of the story for this coin.

 

Looks like real toning. NGC seems to bag the reddish toned proofs while PCGS will slab them. Not sure why. The toning isn't usually attractive on these.

 

 

And lastly, the 2000-P SAC dollar, obverse has a light russet toning while the reverse has a light orange-red colors to it. I guess it wasn't caked on heavy enough to be NT!

 

No idea if AT or NT, but it can be reproduced fairly easy, so that is probably why they bagged it for AT.

 

Thank you Greg,

 

I have several nickels with all kinds of toning, with many certified. I have also seen a few coin albums chuck full of toned coins in my time. The 1938-S came from a dealer at a coin show. He also showed me a couple of buffalo nickels in PCGS holders that were toned in the the same way. That's what convinced me to buy the blessed thing! 27_laughing.gif I still highly prize my toners regardless of what a TPG says. I don't really think they know. They may be able to tell the difference with something that's very obvious but if it's close, I don't believe they know for certain. The toning on the proof half and SAC dollar are so very light, why would anyone waste their time doing so, ATing these coins? They certainly didn't make much money on them as I paid less than a $100 total for all coins.

 

Leo

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