An interesting thread from another message board!!!

[TerrapinWill]

NCA

 

 

Personally, I applaud any organization that attempts to help those who have been taken advantage of by scumbags. For some reason, there seems to be many at PCGS boards who seem to think this organization is simply attempting to promote itself, via these Press Releases.

 

help me understand why anyone would be opposed to an organization that helps those who have been ripped off.

[macrocoin]

I'm a "caveat empor" kinda guy, but I certainly am not going to lob insults at a group for trying to advocate for those that genuinely need the help. Frankly, I think a fool and their money are soon departed, and I dont lend a lot of empathy as a result...but I would not try to stop someone else from intervening.

[TerrapinWill]

I think that "caveat emptour" applies to a certain degree. But it sure seems to me that the people that NCA are helping are not collectors, but rather people who have been the victim of Telemarketers selling them dreams.

For someone to object so strongly to such a group suggests to me that they have no problem with such people being ripped off.

 

There seems to be plenty of threads on PCGS about Ebay scammers and such, and no one seems to have a problem with exposing fraud there, or slapping each other on the back for exposing such fraud. yet, there seems to be little appreciation for the efforts of NCA to do the same.

 

I just dont get it.

[James_OldeTowne]

That is a strange thread! Why should someone want, or get, a refund on coins certified by a "prominent third-party grading service" - presumably NGC or PCGS? I mean, if you agreed to pay a price for something, why would you be entitled to a refund of that just-agreed upon price?

 

Buyer's remorse? or something more insidious?

 

Something seems amiss, or else, we're not being told the whole story.

 

Personally, I find it difficult to show much support for these types of groups when they are shrouded in secrecy, as seems to be the case here.... but that's just me.

 

James

[gmarguli]

I agree with James. I've seen these press releases and frequently feel like I'm missing a major part of the story.

 

I'd have more enthusiastic support for this organization if they'd tell the full story. As it stands right now, all I see is a dealer helping a customer return some coins to another dealer.

[TerrapinWill]

That is a strange thread! Why should someone want, or get, a refund on coins certified by a "prominent third-party grading service" - presumably NGC or PCGS? I mean, if you agreed to pay a price for something, why would you be entitled to a refund of that just-agreed upon price?

 

Buyer's remorse? or something more insidious?

 

Something seems amiss, or else, we're not being told the whole story.

 

Personally, I find it difficult to show much support for these types of groups when they are shrouded in secrecy, as seems to be the case here.... but that's just me.

 

James

 

I think, based on past threads about this group, that the targets of their efforts were not dealers, but telemarketers (worse than Coin Vault). People who have obviously committed fraud, otherwise why so quick to give the money back.

 

I don't think were talking about a dealer selling some old lady PCGS or NGC slabbed bullion at a 10-15 % profit.

[TerrapinWill]

I agree with James. I've seen these press releases and frequently feel like I'm missing a major part of the story.

 

I'd have more enthusiastic support for this organization if they'd tell the full story. As it stands right now, all I see is a dealer helping a customer return some coins to another dealer.

 

Suppose the details that have been left out are part of a settlement agreement. Suppose they are only allowed to release certain types of information. Since they seem to be on the consumers side, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

But thats just me.

[jtryka]

Man that was a tedious read, when will I learn to NEVER click on links across the street!

 

As for this group, it seems positive, but narrowly focused. I would think it more beneficial for collectors to have an organization that lobbies on behalf of them against all bad practices by dealers, and stands up to the "shady" TPGs, and represents us in matters of law and legislation...oh wait, isn't that what the ANA is supposed to do?

[TerrapinWill]

Man that was a tedious read, when will I learn to NEVER click on links across the street!

 

As for this group, it seems positive, but narrowly focused. I would think it more beneficial for collectors to have an organization that lobbies on behalf of them against all bad practices by dealers, and stands up to the "shady" TPGs, and represents us in matters of law and legislation...oh wait, isn't that what the ANA is supposed to do?

 

I agree with the narrowly focused observation. I guess I just rely on the old saying "never let the perfect be the enemy of the good"

[Die Varieties]

The very few times I have ventured "across the street" I have noticed a lot of their post quickly end up digressing into flame-wars. Reminds me of a "click" in high school in that if your not in the circle -- prepare for some serious knee-jerk attitudes flying your way. Not my cup-of-tea.

 

As far as helping others -- I believe it's what we all need to do more of. Whether a non-profit organization, group, club or collector level.

[IGWT]

Wow. Helping a person who was ripped off seems laudable even if (with an emphasis on if) it's tinged with some self-interest on the part of NCA members. I didn't know that taking a stand against scammers was so controversial. The exchange of harsh words suggests some hostility among members that has nothing to do with the topic under discussion.

[ElectricEye-migration]

After reading four pages of the PCGS thread, checking out the not-for-profit website and nearly falling asleep twice, I have decided that the $100 membership fee is better spent on another coin.

[TerrapinWill]

After reading four pages of the PCGS thread, checking out the not-for-profit website and nearly falling asleep twice, I have decided that the $100 membership fee is better spent on another coin.

 

I can't argue with that!!!

[ElectricEye-migration]

Whoops. I just picked up a lot of 15.

[TerrapinWill]

Whoops. I just picked up a lot of 15.

 

addiction is a MF'er isnt it?

[ldhair]

I agree with James. I've seen these press releases and frequently feel like I'm missing a major part of the story.

 

I'd have more enthusiastic support for this organization if they'd tell the full story. As it stands right now, all I see is a dealer helping a customer return some coins to another dealer.

So do you wait for the second or third press release before you slam the [embarrassing lack of self control] out of them or is it just ok to say what you wish based on the first press release?

[Bruceswar]

I like the idea of the organization.... People are too quick to judge them... Lets face it.. the industry in itself is rather corrupt from ... TPG's to Dealers(Some) and even collectors.... At every level there are people trying to make a quick buck by screwing the unknowing... It goes on in every industry.. As for this situation.. scewing older people has never been a good thing... Everytime I see an old person get taken advantage of ... that just sickens me... old people are like kids and should be given that kind of attention... This group is not about what you and I collect it is about the hobby as a whole many years after we are gone so there will still be a hobby for people to enjoy.

[James_OldeTowne]

I like the idea of someone monitoring the hobby as well. But shrouded in secrecy, and proferring only tidbits of information - it sounds more like a vigilante organization to me. However, since I really don't have all the facts - in other words, since they aren't really offering forth much in the way of solid facts - it's really tough to evaluate the value of this type of organization.

 

I'd like to see a clearinghouse of sorts that monitors the consistency of certified coins....

 

James

[TerrapinWill]

The difference between how this issue is discussed here vs. how it is discussed at PCGS is like night and day.