The homeless guy saved $800,000 in coins, so the dealer gave him $100.

[truthteller]

Florida news report about the Fun show thefts.

 

$450,000 in coins stolen in 5 thefts

 

Henry Pierson Curtis | Sentinel Staff Writer

Posted January 20, 2006

 

 

 

Mixed in with the collectors ogling an ultra-rare doubloon worth $6 million at America's largest coin show were some of the underworld's most discriminating thieves.

 

Striking at least five times, they trailed victims up to 100 miles from the Florida United Numismatists coin show in Orlando before pouncing and getting away with about $450,000 worth of gold pieces, silver dollars and "Hobo" nickels, police records and interviews show.

 

"We haven't seen anything of this scale or this violent in years," Coin World editor Beth Deisher said of thefts and a robbery linked to the Jan. 5-7 gathering at the Orange County Convention Center. "What happened was people were being followed driving from the show."

 

Charles Hager -- who lost $66,000 during dinner when thieves broke into his car -- knows he is always a target. The dealer and collector from Melbourne said everyone who buys and sells rare coins knows there is a risk of robbery every time they step outdoors with what amounts to a king's ransom.

 

"Never in 40 years have I even left my valise in an unattended car before," said Hager. "I came out. The windows were broken, and you get that feeling when your heart drops into your stomach."

 

The thieves struck while he and two other collectors ate dinner Jan. 5 at Ming Court Wok & Grill on International Drive, Orange County sheriff's reports show. Dinner guest Daniel Bandish lost $35,000 in Morgan silver dollars and $10,000 cash in the burglary.

 

Like many dealers, Bandish said he was not insured. They say it can be hard to get insurance because they often turn over their inventory quickly.

 

"It could have been a lot worse. I sold $40,000 of platinum [coins] during the show. Thank God, I took a check," he said Thursday. "They must have been following me around because I was making some purchases with cash."

 

The biggest haul happened two hours from Orlando after the coin show closed, when at least three men with a shotgun followed a coin dealer to Florida's west coast, police said.

 

William Dominick had stopped at a Waffle House in Bradenton, where armed robbers smashed out the windows of his silver Mercedes Benz sedan while he sat in the driver's seat, according to the Manatee County Sheriff's Office.

 

Popping open the trunk, the robbers grabbed two steel cases plus a briefcase and ran toward a black late-model luxury car with tinted windows. A homeless man intervened and slugged one of the robbers, who dropped and left behind the largest of the cases, reports show.

 

"It had $700,000 to $800,000 inside," Dominick said Thursday evening of the recovered case. The contents included an 1879 U.S. gold coin worth $150,000 and a $10,000 bill valued at $75,000, he said.

 

"The blessing is that that homeless guy was there," said Dominick, who gave the man a $100 bill.

 

The missing briefcase and the second steel case, which weighed about 30 pounds, held $250,000 in merchandise, said Dominick, who previously sold a 1916-D Mercury dime for $128,800 -- the most ever paid for a U.S. 10-cent piece.

 

"I've offered a $100,000 reward," said the dealer, who runs Westwood Rare Coin Gallery in Naples and a New York suburb. "I'll do whatever's needed to get these guys in jail."

 

Crime reports list nine victims in five cases. Dealers and Coin World said there may be a 10th victim, a coin dealer from Branson, Mo., who was robbed after leaving the show. He could not be reached Thursday.

 

Thieves have stalked jewelers, diamond dealers and collectors of anything small, expensive and easily fenced for years. Investigators across the country call them Colombian theft rings, saying they frequently have ties to Colombia.

 

In the late 1980s, members of a Colombian ring in Los Angeles tossed a baby at a coin dealer and grabbed the man's coin case when he caught the infant, Deisher said.

 

Sometimes, a tire is cut so it will blow out and strand the victim. Dealers suspect GPS transmitters may be planted to tail their cars. An undisclosed method was used to disable a jeweler's car last year in Osceola County, where a sheriff's spokeswoman would not say how much was taken.

 

"I know I was followed," said Archie Taylor of Lakeland. "They must have thought we were carrying gold and silver."

 

He and two colleagues lost hand-carved Hobo nickels worth $60,000 to $100,000 when they drove to Lake Buena Vista for dinner and left their coin collections in the car trunk, reports show.

 

A form of American folk art, Hobo nickels first appeared during the Depression when jobless men carved faces on U.S. Buffalo nickels. Now worth up to $4,000 each, the collectibles pale in comparison to the value of rare gold and silver coins that thieves target, Taylor said.

 

What happens to most of the stolen booty remains unknown.

 

So far, only two coins out of scores worth more than $400,000 stolen two years ago in Valdosta, Ga., from a vendor heading home from the Orlando show have been recovered, police said.

 

"I don't think these groups go to such lengths to steal gold coins to melt them down," said Robert Bruggeman, executive director of the Professional Numismatists Guild. "My suspicion is they're being fenced by someone who is familiar in some way with the coin business."

[Architecht]

Wow. Go back and give that guy a little better reward. Slugging people carrying shotguns is brave.

[truthteller]

For some strange reason, I think this dealer may go back and ask for change from the $100.

 

 

 

 

TRUTH

[gmarguli]

That is pathetic. After saving him so much money he should have really helped out the homeless man and not given him a token $100.

[kryptonitecomics]

Ouch....although I am sure the Homless man was not looking for a reward but just trying to do the right thing..................$100 is a downright insult as compared to the value of the coins he saved........wow.

 

.0125%

[TerrapinWill]

What a cheap arse scum

[Beijim]

Wow.

 

Let me see if I have this straight:

 

- Recover ~$750K in hard assets = $100

- Possibly recover ~$250K in hard assets + put scum in prison = $100K

 

I can't make the math work. Busting slime is great, but even Osama bin Laden is only priced at 200 times greater.

 

Beijim

[michael]

no good deed goes unpunished

 

time to go somewhere safer than the waffle house to eats

 

and do not carry around millions of dollars worth of coins and easily liquid valuables and cash inside of a car

 

get yourself bullet proof windows and also a driver that is a for hire personal guard that is trianed in as such

 

or at the very least buy yourself a larger suv and get it with bullet proof windows

[RGT]

I just read the following on RCC. It was posted yesterday by Rick Snow. I haven't seen this side of the story posted anywhere else so I thought I would share it here. I hope Rick doesn't mind.

 

It was reported that they gave the homless guy $100 for intevening. Actually

they wanted to give $10,000 but the cops on the scene said not to give him

any money, for fear that all the homeless people in the area would be drunk

and partying for weeks to come.

 

 

So Bill and Gloria offered the guy the following:

 

 

A full year of Rehab.

As much clothing as he wanted.

A warm place to stay for a year!

Any additional help to get back into society.

 

 

This is about $70K worth of help!

 

 

This was reported to the papers an they did not publish it.

 

 

Bill is a nervous wreck and will be taking an extended time off. Gloria

refuses to go to any more shows. Both are great people and certianly deserve

all our well-wishes.

 

 

Bill got a letter from someone saying that his was "despicable" for only

giving the homless guy $100. This alone set him into a depression about the

calousness of the collecting public.

 

 

[HaydenTubbs]

I just read the following on RCC. It was posted yesterday by Rick Snow. I haven't seen this side of the story posted anywhere else so I thought I would share it here. I hope Rick doesn't mind.

 

It was reported that they gave the homless guy $100 for intevening. Actually

they wanted to give $10,000 but the cops on the scene said not to give him

any money, for fear that all the homeless people in the area would be drunk

and partying for weeks to come.

 

 

So Bill and Gloria offered the guy the following:

 

 

A full year of Rehab.

As much clothing as he wanted.

A warm place to stay for a year!

Any additional help to get back into society.

 

 

This is about $70K worth of help!

 

 

This was reported to the papers an they did not publish it.

 

 

Bill is a nervous wreck and will be taking an extended time off. Gloria

refuses to go to any more shows. Both are great people and certianly deserve

all our well-wishes.

 

 

Bill got a letter from someone saying that his was "despicable" for only

giving the homless guy $100. This alone set him into a depression about the

calousness of the collecting public.

 

 

 

 

Hopefully this homeless guy will be able to get back on his feet because of his good deed!

[MarkFeld]

In case anyone missed Hayden's posting of the rest of the story above.....perhaps an apology or two are in order for jumping to conclusions based upon incomplete information.

[EVillageProwler]

I'm very pleased to hear that Bill and Gloria are trying to get the guy some substantive help.

 

I've been mugged once (not coin related). The incident pales in severity to what the Dominicks went through. From just my minor incident, I can tell you how upsetting it was. Multiply that by too many orders of magnitude and that's how Bill and Gloria felt. Imagine a panicked Gloria watching from inside the restaurant as her husband was getting attacked by gun-toting thugs.

 

EVP

 

PS As an aside, folks should be quicker to praise and slower to criticize.

[gmarguli]

In case anyone missed Hayden's posting of the rest of the story above.....perhaps an apology or two are in order for jumping to conclusions based upon incomplete information.

 

Nope. Based on the information we were given - which we had every right to believe was accurate - an appropriate assessment of the situation was given by the forum members. Or are you saying we should not trust the press to give an accurate assessment of the situation and instead wait until all the facts are out - in which case we'd be discussing the current events of the war - the War of 1812?

 

[EVillageProwler]

I agree with Feld - an apology is in order. Folks are certainly well within their rights to comment on an issue immediately based on information supplied to them. However, what should these same folks do once they realize that they acted on false or incomplete information?

 

Do they simply shrug and say that it's the data? Or, should they try to correct their previous action that was based on false or incomplete information?

 

Anyway, I think "quick to praise, slow to criticize" is a good mantra.

 

BTW - the Brits owe us an apology for impressing US citizens to fight in the Royal Navy against the French. And, it is unconscionable that they burned our Capitol building. It served no military purpose - at least none that I can imagine.

 

EVP

[ldhair]

Some of what was said here about the dealer was mean and just not right. Sure we can blame it on the press but many folks knew there had to be more to the story.

[truthteller]

In case anyone missed Hayden's posting of the rest of the story above.....perhaps an apology or two are in order for jumping to conclusions based upon incomplete information.

 

Sorry Mark, I definitely don't agree. When everything is PAID for and the check for $70K is written for all the "generosity", then I think things will be different. Thus, I EXPECT you to keep us updated.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[ldhair]

I never expected some here to do the right thing.

It's a shame that the truth is not good enough.

I hope no one here ever has to go through what this dealer has.

[LARRYINUSA-migration]

I am not to good with putting up links yet so just copy and paste. This has to do with the coin dealer. It may change you minds about what is the right thing to do. http://boards.collectors-society.com/sho...e=1#Post1091994

[Count_Erfit]

I'd cut some slack for the early responders. They commented on the unsubstantiated facts as reported at that time. We all do that.

 

I think it's asking a lot to want posters to follow a thread that has gone on to explain subsequent information.

 

A $100 reward would be lousy, what they did IN REALITY was generous. But all who read the thread (like me) were astounded by the cheapness ...UNTIL... I got to "the rest of the story."

 

Just seems that the posters who reacted to the INITIAL info weren't being out of line.

 

[Architecht]

[MarkFeld]

Nope. Based on the information we were given - which we had every right to believe was accurate - an appropriate assessment of the situation was given by the forum members.

Greg, I disagree. Even if no additional information had come out, I believe it was extremely harsh and unfair of people to judge the victims of that type of crime in that fashion.

 

Very few, if any of us, know how we would have reacted had WE been attacked and facing a gun. Perhaps, being understandably badly shaken and not ourselves, we would have offered the homeless person a $1 bill, or a $5 bill or nothing at all. Certainly there were other things on the victims' minds, and they deserved the benefit of the doubt.

[Morgannut]

Actually the comments reflect ignorance of both the homeless and newspapers--Gee, use common sense. Thousands of homeless with major untreated mental illness and concomitant etoh abuse are MURDERED every year. So even if the dealer gave the guy $70,000 he should say he gave him a hundred. Even that is almost a death sentence if his name gets known on the street. I think the dealer did the responsible thing, and the newspaper was wise to protect the poor guy by not giving more info on him, money transactions, or if as witness he could ID the armed robbers.

[IGWT]

Nope. Based on the information we were given - which we had every right to believe was accurate - an appropriate assessment of the situation was given by the forum members.

Greg, I disagree. Even if no additional information had come out, I believe it was extremely harsh and unfair of people to judge the victims of that type of crime in that fashion.

 

Message boards -- and other "new" media of the Internet -- are places where we express opinions based on incomplete (or even false) information. We like to think we know the facts; we like to judge; and we like to speak our minds. It all seems harmless enough until we realize that the people who are the subjects of our discussions live in the real world, not the virtual world. I agree with the advice provided by EVP.

[macrocoin]

No offense, but anyone that would leave that kind of cache unatended in a parked vehicle deserves what they get. I realize that no one has a right to enter into my vehicle without my permission...but I also understand that what I percieve to be appropriate behaviour is not neccesarily the standard by which society can be judged accurately. Even when transporting several thousand dollars, I am armed from the time the safe door opens till the time it closes again. I work too hard for what I have saved...I will not readily provide it to an opportunistic criminal. If someone wants to steal from me, they are going to have to work pretty hard at it.

 

And...if faced with a similar scenerio regarding the homeless chap, I would at least have ensured that they guy had enough to stay in a suite at the Ritz for a month dining on filet mignon and lobster nightly. Show some damn gratitude...geez.

 

Just MHO....YMMV.

[mark]

macrocoin:

 

Re your comment "No offense, but anyone that would leave that kind of cache unatended in a parked vehicle deserves what they get":

 

Did you read the story in the first post upon which you are (supposedly) commenting?

 

Mark

[macrocoin]

Thank you - I just realized I was responding to two different things....sorry about that. Regarding the homeless guy, I stand by my comments...I would have helped him out for helping me. The comment about leaving coins in the trunk of a car was about the chaps grabbing dinner with "60k - 100k in their vehicle. (someone metioned that article a little further down)

 

Sorry for the confusion....I got the two stories mixed up

Thanks for keeping me honest

[ldhair]

So Bill and Gloria offered the guy the following:

 

 

A full year of Rehab.

As much clothing as he wanted.

A warm place to stay for a year!

Any additional help to get back into society.

[HaydenTubbs]

Morgannut and Mark Feld brought up to very important points