Buying Raw Coins

[midijab-migration]

Anyone out there ever had experience buying coins from companies listed in Coin World such as Paul Simms, Skyline, Ken Pines, etc.? How is their quality? I had gotten some gold type long ago and remember sending the items back as I was certain they would've been "body bagged" had I kept them. Prices seem good but I wonder if the quality has improved. I see advertisements stating "Premium Quality Brilliant Uncirculated" which I would take it to mean it has never been circulated and mint state (say ms60 at the very least).

[IGWT]

Deleted because I couldn't get link to work (It worked at first, but then clicked out for some reason). You can do a search across the street using the names as search terms and find all the information you need.

[gmarguli]

Based on what I've seen/heard about two of those: AVOID

 

 

I see advertisements stating "Premium Quality Brilliant Uncirculated" which I would take it to mean it has never been circulated and mint state (say ms60 at the very least).

 

I'd take that to mean MS62. I'd expect to get a cleaned AU50.

[midijab-migration]

Went to check over across the street and they basically brutalized the man. Also, is it true Ken Pines got bounced by the ANA? Here's their disclaimer:

Because coin grading is subjective, we use a grading standard based on "Photograde", ANA grading standards, and OUR OWN OPINION.

It goes on to say:

We use "Photograde by James F Ruddy. We find it excellent. We do not employ or endorse the use of numbers in grading. Using numbers implies that absolute lines of demarcation exist from one grade to the next. . .

 

I thought the ANA grading standards is based on the sheldon scale?

[supertooth]

Hello---I get CW and NN for their coin information----not for buying coins. It is not that there are not great dealers that advertise in the mags eg. I. Kleinman but, for the most, do not depend on most of them using "correct" grading standards. Most all new collectors have had an apple out of this bag. Save yourself a few headaches and buy elsewhere. Naturally NGC or PCGS or ANACS coins may be ok but make sure there is a return policy---not all coins in holders are what they are supposed to be. Go to some coin shows and walk the floors----look at everything----learn without buying. Go onto Ebay---do not buy---just look at the pictures of the slabbed coins----great way to learn to grade and does not cost anything but time. Gain experience in grading--buy a couple of books---read them BEFORE YOU SPEND YOUR MONEY. Be patient. It takes awhile to really get the hang of it. In the meantime, save your money until you are sure that you are getting at least a little bang for your buck. Bob [supertooth]

[CTcollector]

When I was younger - (maybe 20 years ago) - I got severly ripped off by Paul Simms. His Super Premium Select Brilliant Uncirculated turned out to be nothing more than processed AU's. It wasn't alot of money, but nothing of his held up. I am so surprised that name is still in business. Caveat Emptor!

 

If you are looking for raw coins only - try Rare Coins of New Hampshire. They guarantee the coin will certify at the grade. Ask Paul Simms if he guarantees his grades !

[jtryka]

I have a couple dansco albums of Morgans that I have been working on, filling with raw AU/BU coins (by that, I mean most likely AU-58 to MS-62). About 6 months ago, I looked at those ads and figured I'd try them. I bought 5 BU Morgans from each (Skyline and Paul Sims), they were all common dates so the total I spent with each was maybe $100-150. Long story short, I just kept returning coins, until finally after 3 sets of return back and forth, I got coins I was satisfied with. And these weren't even important coins, they were like 1921-D! I said to myself how many thousands of BU rolls of 1921 Morgans are there that these insufficiently_thoughtful_persons have to send me a polished AU coin? Needless to say, I learned my lesson with them, fortunately I didn't buy on of their raw Saints or truly expensive coins like a Bust dollar!

[Oldtrader3]

I also have had luck with Rare Coins of New Hampshire. The coins that I bought from them were all correctly graded and priced fairly.

[Leothelion]

I used to get those papers and seldom did I ever buy anything substantial. It was usually from the small ads in the back. I used to advertise a bit myself with those free ads they had. One of the things I couldn't get over was that the same coins from these big advertisers were advertised like every week. If no one else was buying that stuff, why should I. I remember once when I bought some FS nickels from some guy named Donald and he had sent me some coins in some old 2x2's and some of the coins had this green slim on them. I was furious that he had sent me such garbage! Yeah, I sent them back in one big hurry and got refunded. Never ordered from that guy again!

 

Leo

[James_OldeTowne]

My take on it is that it isn't an issue of "raw coins". I look at it as, in order for a company to have the biggest ad, whether it be in Coin World, Coinage magazine, or the yellow pages, they must make more money. That it turn might cause them to "cut corners". Catch my drift?

 

Also, I have purchased coin(s) from two of the advertisers you mentioned, and in both cases, was quite dissatisfied with my purchase. However, the amount of money involved was too low to warrant the hassles of pursuing a refund.

 

James

[EZ_E]

medijab,

 

Great advice. Do a wide circle around these big advertisers in the coin publications. How else can they pay $100,000 + for advertising unless they con they uninformed? I certainly had a learning curve when I re-entered the hobby. Also, stand clear of the coin shows like "The Coin Vault". Big-time ripoffs.

 

Here's a link with my dealings with John Paul Sarosi.

[midijab-migration]

Hey EZ-

 

Sorry to hear about your exploits with Sarosi. I've heard about that Sarosi Fella from a colleague here at work who ordered from the ad in Coin World. Ordered a couple of buffalo's touted as MS64's. He got buffalo'd alright as these things were processed and would've certainly been "body bagged" had he sent it in for grading. I guess they'll process any coin to try and make it look like the grade you ordered! He called Sarosi to return the items and yep, Sarosi was awfully rude. They're only nice when you order, and get aggitated quickly otherwise. He even went on to say that he was using too strong a loop and to send it back if he didn't like it. Which he promptly did. I guess it's almost a given that the guys with the huge ads, selling raw coins cheap-cheap, are the bottom feeders in this hobby.

[michael]

[RobertB]

Paul Sims got me for quite a bit many years ago. He wouldn't know uncirculated if it smacked him in the face. He probably makes 95% of his earnings from ripping off newbies.

[EZ_E]

He probably makes 95% of his earnings from ripping off newbies.

 

Exactly! I put BBB, ANA and Coin World complaints about John Paul Sarosi's shenanigans and not a one did a damn thing! The only one of the three that even had the decency of a reply was the Better Business Bureau but they accepted their rebuttal with no questions asked even though it was total B.S.! I will not be renewing my ANA membership this October. The only justice I achieved was informing the grassroot collector on the NGC boards via a thread.

 

NGC ..... thank you for this forum, sincerely.

[Oldtrader3]

The ANA has always been namby-pamby about enforcement with these guys. Better to shaft a (1000) members than lose one past, present or future advertizer.

[rhack-migration]

Wish I joined this site a day earlier. I just ordered a bunch of coins from on of the aforementioned dealers.

 

My brother just bought 100 silver eagles for the bullion, along with his order came a nice glossy catalog with nice pics, and what appeared to be some decent pricing in general. Since I am currently type collectiong it looked like a good way to pick up a nice assortment for not too bad of a cost. based on the different levels of BU, I am making an assumption that Premium BU would conservatively be a grade of around MS62 or 63. Based on the pictures I tended to believe it. Anyway, didn't buy any one coin over $60, but did buy a good assortment. I hope I am not disapointed. Since they photograde, I will be sure to photograde my purchases to the catalog photos.

 

Just getting back into collecting after not having collected since I was 12 or 13, now in my 40's. Looking to first build a nice type collection with nice specimens, not looking for the rarities yet. I've started to have quite an affinity for large cents as well. Guess I get a little anxious when I see something that looks to be a good deal.

[IGWT]

Welcome, rhack. I hope that you're pleased with your purchases; if not, return them and don't take any guff.

[Morgannut]

The only factual thing I can add is I purchased a 1928 Peace $1 from Ken Pines 5 years ago in "Select BU". I just had it graded with my collector club group at PCGS, and it was AU-55. The good news?? Well I paid $145 and doubled my money anyway. The bad news?? If I had bought the '28 in NGC MS-64 it would have cost about the same, but sold for $900 or more.

[cpm9ball]

Not long ago, one of my friends told me he just received one of those Morgan "specials" - All 44 for $1099 . All I could say was, "Oh no! You didn't!" When I looked at them, all I saw was whiz, clean, whiz, clean, etc. etc. I told him that he should send them back for immediate replacement or refund, but I don't think he ever did. Too bad!

 

Chris

[KurtHorn]

If they're not selling slabbed coins they are almost always cleaned, problem, and/or over graded.

 

-Kurt-