Please Explain the NGC Grading Process 1 1

[Malamute]

Can individuals send coins to be graded or must you go through a dealer? How best should very valuable coins be handled, through insured shipping or is it better to fly to NGC and deliver the coins directly? How is the price to be determined, by what NGC perceives the coin to be worth? 

Is it worthwhile to have 1800's gold coins graded or are they valuable no matter if they are graded or not? 

[Henri Charriere]

I am going to take the liberty of fast-tracking your multiple-coice questions and answers.

First, you sound serious, if you aren't a member, become one.  Your job, should you choose to accept it, is to pore through every nook and cranny of the NGC website.  The lion's share of your questions are answered there. Yes, including grading which is explored in excruciating length.

Secondly, contact NGC custserve and request a few Submission Forms.  Study them exhausively -- as though your tax bracket and refund depend on it.

After you've done both, feel free to come back and ask us any questions with free abandon, to your heart's content.

[Sandon]

   For NGC's own explanation of its grading process, see the following: Coin Authentication and Grading Process Overview | NGC (ngccoin.com).

   Coins can be submitted by collectors with a paid annual NGC membership, which includes submission privileges, or they can be submitted through NGC member dealers. See How to Submit | NGC (ngccoin.com) and the various links in it for details. 

   Pay particular attention to the "NGC Services and Fees" page linked under "Determine Grading Tier". You must be able to determine the approximate grades and values of the coins that you submit to determine the correct tier. If you undervalue your submissions, they will only be insured for the market value you stated. In cases of substantial undervaluing in NGC's opinion, NGC will charge you for a higher tier but will still only insure the coins at your stated value. No matter by how much you overvalue your coins, however, NGC will charge you for the tier that you chose. This one of the reasons why I implore novice collectors not to submit coins to grading services before they have developed substantial grading and related skills themselves and can determine their value.

   You can only deliver coins to NGC by shipping them through the U.S. Postal Service or a carrier such as Fed Ex or UPS. NGC also accepts submissions at some larger coin shows, which are listed under Events | NGC (ngccoin.com). For security reasons, NGC does not accept submissions delivered directly by collector members at its facility in Sarasota. See Submitting to NGC FAQs - General Submission FAQs | NGC (ngccoin.com) ("Can I drop my coins off at your office?")

   Gold coins are frequently counterfeited, so in some cases the primary reason to submit them is for authentication more than grading. A novice who has not developed at least basic authentication skills should probably not buy classic gold or other high value coins that are uncertified. See NGC Counterfeit Detection | Identify Counterfeit Coins | NGC (ngccoin.com).

   Lower value (or even higher value) coins can be collected and enjoyed in coin albums, lucite boards, and other appropriate, protective holders. Such albums and holders are much lighter and more compact than grading service holders and allow more coins to be stored in bank safe deposit boxes, which are becoming difficult to find. Although I have submitted some higher value pieces in my collection, I still have a number of three and even four figure pieces in albums and may continue to do so. It is simply unnecessary to submit most of the coins that are owned by the average collector to grading services. At this point, your money would be much better spent on books and publications from which you may learn more about coins than on grading service costs.

[Malamute]

On 10/11/2024 at 1:00 PM, Sandon said:

   For NGC's own explanation of its grading process, see the following: Coin Authentication and Grading Process Overview | NGC (ngccoin.com).

   Coins can be submitted by collectors with a paid annual NGC membership, which includes submission privileges, or they can be submitted through NGC member dealers. See How to Submit | NGC (ngccoin.com) and the various links in it for details. 

   Pay particular attention to the "NGC Services and Fees" page linked under "Determine Grading Tier". You must be able to determine the approximate grades and values of the coins that you submit to determine the correct tier. If you undervalue your submissions, they will only be insured for the market value you stated. In cases of substantial undervaluing in NGC's opinion, NGC will charge you for a higher tier but will still only insure the coins at your stated value. No matter by how much you overvalue your coins, however, NGC will charge you for the tier that you chose. This one of the reasons why I implore novice collectors not to submit coins to grading services before they have developed substantial grading and related skills themselves and can determine their value.

   You can only deliver coins to NGC by shipping them through the U.S. Postal Service or a carrier such as Fed Ex or UPS. NGC also accepts submissions at some larger coin shows, which are listed under Events | NGC (ngccoin.com). For security reasons, NGC does not accept submissions delivered directly by collector members at its facility in Sarasota. See Submitting to NGC FAQs - General Submission FAQs | NGC (ngccoin.com) ("Can I drop my coins off at your office?")

   Gold coins are frequently counterfeited, so in some cases the primary reason to submit them is for authentication more than grading. A novice who has not developed at least basic authentication skills should probably not buy classic gold or other high value coins that are uncertified. See NGC Counterfeit Detection | Identify Counterfeit Coins | NGC (ngccoin.com).

   Lower value (or even higher value) coins can be collected and enjoyed in coin albums, lucite boards, and other appropriate, protective holders. Such albums and holders are much lighter and more compact than grading service holders and allow more coins to be stored in bank safe deposit boxes, which are becoming difficult to find. Although I have submitted some higher value pieces in my collection, I still have a number of three and even four figure pieces in albums and may continue to do so. It is simply unnecessary to submit most of the coins that are owned by the average collector to grading services. At this point, your money would be much better spent on books and publications from which you may learn more about coins than on grading service costs.

Are there individuals that can be hired independently to grade for the sole purpose of properly identifying the right tier for NGC/PCGS submissions?  

[Sandon]

On 10/11/2024 at 2:30 PM, Malamute said:

Are there individuals that can be hired independently to grade for the sole purpose of properly identifying the right tier for NGC/PCGS submissions?  

    I assume that there are dealers and collectors who might be willing to do this with or without compensation, but if you want to become a serious collector, why wouldn't you want to learn to grade yourself?  Only individual coins that are worth at least several hundred dollars are worth submitting, so if you do take this route, make sure to determine the minimum value you want to submit. 

   What books and other resources are you using to learn about coins? Do you attend coin shows or coin club meetings? 

[Malamute]

On 10/11/2024 at 3:37 PM, Sandon said:

    I assume that there are dealers and collectors who might be willing to do this with or without compensation, but if you want to become a serious collector, why wouldn't you want to learn to grade yourself?  Only individual coins that are worth at least several hundred dollars are worth submitting, so if you do take this route, make sure to determine the minimum value you want to submit. 

   What books and other resources are you using to learn about coins? Do you attend coin shows or coin club meetings? 

I definitely want to learn, I just wasn't sure how long or what is required to master that. I bought several recommended books from Amazon that I have yet to receive but surely there is more to learn than those books offer? I own 9 x 1944 steel uncirculated pennies but the steel finish is thin and rough in some areas on the obverse which makes me wonder if they are worth submitting at all. I can't take a picture because they are in a safety deposit box but they all look similar to the 1943 below. 

I'm sure its taken years for some of you to learn and perfect grading accurately. 

[VKurtB]

On 10/11/2024 at 3:09 PM, Malamute said:

I definitely want to learn, I just wasn't sure how long or what is required to master that. I bought several recommended books from Amazon that I have yet to receive but surely there is more to learn than those books offer? I own 9 x 1944 steel uncirculated pennies but the steel finish is thin and rough in some areas on the obverse which makes me wonder if they are worth submitting at all. I can't take a picture because they are in a safety deposit box but they all look similar to the 1943 below. 

I'm sure its taken years for some of you to learn and perfect grading accurately. 

Nine 1944 steel cents? I don’t think so.

[RWB]

Your money goes in one hole.....that's about it.

[J P M]

On 10/11/2024 at 4:09 PM, Malamute said:

I own 9 x 1944 steel uncirculated pennies

Well, that's about 3.5 million dollars' worth of coins.

 

On 10/11/2024 at 4:15 PM, VKurtB said:

Nine 1944 steel cents? I don’t think so.

 

[Henri Charriere]

While I do not wish to detract in any way from @Sandon 's truly fine exposition to a newcomer to our hobby, I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone with five or six decades in the hobby would find it difficult to accept someone, somewhere -- or perhaps a family member -- had enough foresight to retain nine 1944 steel cents from circulation. After all, they presumably appeared in Proof Sets of the time for all of ten saw-bucks, total  Perhaps he misspoke and they were actually comprised of the copper casing from shell casings which imparted to them a distinctly washed out tannish color.  No matter.  From now on, I am going to promote myself as the proud new owner of an original roll of uncirculated '44 cents Steel?  Copper?  That's for me to know, and my many suitors to find out!  

[powermad5000]

On 10/11/2024 at 1:30 PM, Malamute said:

Are there individuals that can be hired independently to grade for the sole purpose of properly identifying the right tier for NGC/PCGS submissions?

If you want to hire someone to grade your coins, it would just be more expenditure of your money to do something you can do yourself. Unfortunately, there is no fast track process to learn how to self grade your coins. It can take years, decades even to learn how to look, what to look for, and fine tune the self grading process. Nothing can fast track book learning, and viewing thousands and thousands of coins of top quality at coin shows and auctions.

I am not sure what your overall circumstances are and you shouldn't publicly disclose them here for all the world to read, but depending on your age, and time you have to devote to the learning of the hobby will affect how you want to approach the coins in your collection, which from our understanding is numerically large and extensive. If you are younger and have many years left, then why not pump the brakes and hold on to these coins while you learn? If you are older and don't have the time to devote to learning, then you might want to join a local coin club and go over some of your coins there and see if someone or a group of the members of the club would take a look at at least some of your collection and provide advice for free.

The one thing I will tell you and is solid fact, if you get/are in a hurry, you WILL lose money, and potentially lose some coins that could have some value based on those with a more scarce variety that you let go because it was not checked for.

Your mention of having that many very rare steel cents with a value in the millions tells me you will need to learn more before submitting coins. You are welcome to do as you wish, but third party grading has become very expensive over the last decade. I am not saying without inspection that these steel cents you own are not legit, but the chances are extremely slim that they are legit and then to have all ended up in the same place would be astronomical chances so you can understand my skepticism.

[Sandon]

    I assume that you meant 1943 steel cents, not 1944. 

    I hope that the books that you ordered from Amazon, unless you already have them, include a current (2025) or recent edition of A Guide Book of United States Coins, commonly known as the "Red Book", and a grading guide, such as The Official American Numismatic Association Grading Standards for United States Coins, commonly known as the "A.N.A. Grading Guide". It is important to learn the basic information about U.S. coins and collecting them that is in these books before you can get into some of the advanced topics you have raised, such as mint errors and die varieties and, especially, submitting coins to grading services. The following forum topics identify these and other legitimate print and online resources and where to obtain them:

 

Edited October 11 by Sandon

[Malamute]

On 10/11/2024 at 5:31 PM, Henri Charriere said:

While I do not wish to detract in any way from @Sandon 's truly fine exposition to a newcomer to our hobby, I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone with five or six decades in the hobby would find it difficult to accept someone, somewhere -- or perhaps a family member -- had enough foresight to retain nine 1944 steel cents from circulation. After all, they presumably appeared in Proof Sets of the time for all of ten saw-bucks, total  Perhaps he misspoke and they were actually comprised of the copper casing from shell casings which imparted to them a distinctly washed out tannish color.  No matter.  From now on, I am going to promote myself as the proud new owner of an original roll of uncirculated '44 cents Steel?  Copper?  That's for me to know, and my many suitors to find out!  

I'm not a coin hobbyist. I inherited coins from family members and my father when he died and never gave any interest except for the gold ones. The steel ones were in separate sealed paper envelopes along with lots... and I mean lots of other coins. The really valuable gold coins I have in the bank. In the late 1800's one side of the family made ginger ale phosphate which they sold to customers out west. The folks paid in gold coins. The other side of the family owned banks. My great, great grandmother was a relic collector and had one of the largest collections anywhere. In the 1960's she had a relic sale that is famous among collectors, the Smithsonian purchased 167 items that are on display today. I'm just now taking an interest in the coins and will have to decide what I want to keep and what to sell cause I can't keep them all. 

[J P M]

On 10/11/2024 at 7:49 PM, Malamute said:

I'm not a coin hobbyist. I inherited coins from family members and my father when he died and never gave any interest except for the gold ones. The steel ones were in separate sealed paper envelopes along with lots... and I mean lots of other coins. The really valuable gold coins I have in the bank. In the late 1800's one side of the family made ginger ale phosphate which they sold to customers out west. The folks paid in gold coins. The other side of the family owned banks. My great, great grandmother was a relic collector and had one of the largest collections anywhere. In the 1960's she had a relic sale that is famous among collectors, the Smithsonian purchased 167 items that are on display today. I'm just now taking an interest in the coins and will have to decide what I want to keep and what to sell cause I can't keep them all. 

Well if the coins are real then I bet someone would pay you to not make them available that would increase the value even more.

[Malamute]

On 10/11/2024 at 7:59 PM, J P M said:

Well if the coins are real then I bet someone would pay you to not make them available that would increase the value even more.

I would never dump them on the market. I would sell a 1944 steel if it was worth $200k+ but I doubt any of mine are worth that. They are not pristine and might grade lower than I like. I might as well hold onto them with hopes that prices for lower grade varieties go up. 

[Malamute]

On 10/11/2024 at 6:33 PM, Sandon said:

    I assume that you meant 1943 steel cents, not 1944. 

    I hope that the books that you ordered from Amazon, unless you already have them, include a current (2025) or recent edition of A Guide Book of United States Coins, commonly known as the "Red Book", and a grading guide, such as The Official American Numismatic Association Grading Standards for United States Coins, commonly known as the "A.N.A. Grading Guide". It is important to learn the basic information about U.S. coins and collecting them that is in these books before you can get into some of the advanced topics you have raised, such as mint errors and die varieties and, especially, submitting coins to grading services. The following forum topics identify these and other legitimate print and online resources and where to obtain them:

 

I have 300 uncirculated 1943's which I thought may be worth $400-500 before I joined this forum. The 1944's are completely separate from the 1943's. My father indicated on the envelope that the 1944's were valuable collector coins. Nothing on the 1943's which may indicate he knew their condition wasn't valuable. 

[Sandon]

   Please understand that we have reason to be extremely skeptical when anyone claims to have even one extremely rare piece such as a 1944 steel cent, much less nine! See https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1944-1c-steel/82722 for information about these pieces, of which no more than 75 are believed to exist and were accidentally struck on zinc coated steel planchets intended for either 1943 cents or 1944 Belgian 2-franc pieces. There have been numerous claims on this chat board of discoveries of this and other off-metal or "transitional" errors, including 1943 bronze cents and 1982-D small date "copper" cents, not a single one of which has ever been shown to be true! As the 1944 steel cents would have randomly mixed with regular 95% copper 1944 cents, it appears quite unlikely that your father could have found nine of them.

  I suggest that you first test these pieces with a good magnet. A 1943 cent such as those you showed should stick to it. If the 1944 pieces are not attracted to the magnet to the same extent as the 1943 cents, they are not composed of steel and are likely normal 1944 cents that were painted or coated to make them look life zinc coated steel cents. If they are so attracted to it, they may have been nickel plated, as many ordinary copper cents were in such places as high school science labs, so the next step would be to weigh them on a high quality, properly calibrated digital scale that weighs to at least the nearest hundredth of a gram. A cent struck on a zinc coated steel planchet should weigh approximately 2.7 grams, while a normal 1944 cent should weigh approximately 3.11 grams. Tolerances of plus or minus 0.13 gram suggest that a zinc coated steel planchet should weigh no more than 2.83 grams, while a normal 95% copper planchet should weigh no less than 2.98 grams. 

   If any of these 1944 cents pass post both of these tests, I request that you post clear, cropped images of each side of at least one of them as a new topic. We could then advise you as to what steps to take next.

[powermad5000]

The 1944 (P) in steel is still listed as $35,000 for a base AU 50 specimen.

If anything on these cents, hypothetically speaking, a release of 9 more of these into the market of any of the mintmarks of these cents would cause the value to not increase but decrease as more specimens become available thought previously to not be available. The coin market has typically had this reaction in regards to pricing when hoards get discovered of coins previously thought to be lost to attrition that suddenly become available to collectors.

All things aside, I can only maintain my reservations about these 9 cents viability due to the astronomical probability of all 9 being in one single place.