Care to guess the grade: NGC 1834 LM-2 Capped Bust Half Dime H10C 0

[leeg]

Have at it. If you already know the grade please don't give it away. Results revealed at noon eastern tomorrow.

 

Edited July 25 by leeg

[Rod D.]

Nice toning!  AU53? 

[rrantique]

I like it Lee I am at AU 55 with a color bump

[Just Bob]

Pretty coin. Looks AU.

[ldhair]

53 Pretty coin.

[CIII]

MS61?  What a beautiful coin!

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

I will say NGC55. I really like it.

[samclemen3991]

I think the slightly flattened curls make it a Choice 45, but this is not my series so take that into consideration.  Very Pretty.  James

[J P M]

This coin has many AU attributions, but I see it is in a newer holder and it has a rainbow tone. With that said I think it graded to newer standers and got a MS63

[Henri Charriere]

As a graduate with a degree in D.D.S., (Doctor of Dentricalure Surgery) I am afraid I am going to have to award you with an assessment of AU-59.  As there would be little point served in pointing out the deficiencies you are already painfully aware of having seen everything under the sun since the Truman years, suffice it to say you can bask in the glory of knowing you have a gem of a coin rendered in full technicolor.

 

[jimbo27]

AU58

[RWB]

Solid EF. Nice coin even after dipping and re-toning.

[Tobias J Reily]

I think it is AU55, it's got nice colour too. 

[leeg]

Here you go:

[RWB]

Nice!

[Henri Charriere]

On 7/26/2024 at 4:00 PM, RWB said:

Nice!

To be fair about it, a part of what makes it "nice," is because you were among the viewers who called it closest. "Dipping and re-toning" is highly speculative conjecture. You average member, including myself, still cannot state conclusively whether such scurrilous charges apply.

I sould like to know what FACTS would you cite in support of such an assertion unsupported by any EVIDENCE.

Though I would be the first to admit the following is highly irregular, I would still be curious to know what in the way of formal grading was one of our long-time members hoping to secure when he filled out the Submission Form, calculated the fees and costs involved, and dropped his gem off at the local transport of his choosing?  Did we concede your suspicions, or surpass your expectations?

(Posted at the discretion of Moderation.)

 

---

[Sandon]

   As I've occasionally had comments to the effect that I "know too much" to participate in "guess the grade" topics, I decided not to participate in this one before the answer was revealed. I would have given an estimated grade for this coin of XF 45 but would have noted that grading services nowadays are likely to grade it in the AU 50-55 range, so the AU 50 grade was on the conservative side.  It is a nice example of a Capped Bust half dime but has a fair amount of high point wear, which can be seen when compared with my own 1834 half dime (an LM-4) graded MS 62 in an "old" green label PCGS holder:

   @Numisdoclaw may find it instructive to compare the "cleaned" VF LM-2 from his recent topic with the OP's more original and less worn example and this LM-4.

 

Edited July 26 by Sandon

[leeg]

Thanks all for the kind words, thoughts and grading opinions.

I like the sharpness of the stars on the obverse and the nice center plate on the reverse. Plus the toning of course.

 

[RWB]

On 7/26/2024 at 6:25 PM, Henri Charriere said:

To be fair about it, a part of what makes it "nice," is because you were among the viewers who called it closest. "Dipping and re-toning" is highly speculative conjecture.

Any assessment from photos is “conjecture,” so you needn’t be so dramatic.

When a coin enters circulation its surface is soon coated with human skin oils and secretions. The oils tend to protect the surface and acid secretions etch the surface. Oils last longer than water soluble acids, so the overall action is one of protection. During use, some of the metal is abrasively removed and quickly re-coated with skin oil. These circulation coatings act to protect the surface from significant tarnish, and circulation abrasion removes most tarnish that remains except in protected areas (inside letters, for example). This is the reason most circulated coins have very little toning and are mostly “dark gray and white” in color. (Look through any bag of circulated silver coins for examples.)

Here comes the rest of the story –– When a lightly circulated silver coin is dipped or otherwise cleaned by a collector, the entire surface is stripped of protective oils, any existing tarnish, etc. The surface reverts to something chemically similar to the coin just as it was struck. Unprotected silver and copper are exposed to oxidizing chemicals in the air and fresh tarnish (“toning”) begins everywhere – even protected areas.

The pattern of tarnish depends on storage, orientation, handling and other factors that make a toned coin visually attractive or ugly.

Leeg’s half dime is a very nice, visually appealing EF condition coin in my opinion. The tarnish is consistent with the coin having been dipped (“surface stripped”) long ago, and the surface then allowed to uniformly tarnish, including the inside of letters, in a radial color pattern. This is common for coins stored in a paper coin album, but other storage can produce similar results.

None of this detracts from the coin and its appearance. There would be no point in mentioning the cleaning on a TPG label because it has no bearing at this stage. (No sensible collector would reject this coin due to cleaning. Most would offer a premium for the attractive color pattern and uniform wear.)

Edited July 27 by RWB
Corrected layout

[Henri Charriere]

POINT-BLANK QUESTION TO THE OP

What was the "grade" accorded the coin when President Truman famously displayed to reporters a local newspaper's premature banner headline, "DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN," and what was the grade you were hoping it would get after submitting it?

[EarlyUS.com]

I like the OP coin very much and would have guessed extremely-fine or better.  However, if there is a fair amount more luster than the images are suggesting, then AU seems appropriate.

[Mike Meenderink]

On 7/27/2024 at 11:12 AM, RWB said:

When a coin enters circulation its surface is soon coated with human skin oils and secretions. The oils tend to protect the surface and acid secretions etch the surface. Oils last longer than water soluble acids, so the overall action is one of protection. During use, some of the metal is abrasively removed and quickly re-coated with skin oil. These circulation coatings act to protect the surface from significant tarnish, and circulation abrasion removes most tarnish that remains except in protected areas (inside letters, for example). This is the reason most circulated coins have very little toning and are mostly “dark gray and white” in color. (Look through any bag of circulated silver coins for examples.)

Here comes the rest of the story –– When a lightly circulated silver coin is dipped or otherwise cleaned by a collector, the entire surface is stripped of protective oils, any existing tarnish, etc. The surface reverts to something chemically similar to the coin just as it was struck. Unprotected silver and copper are exposed to oxidizing chemicals in the air and fresh tarnish (“toning”) begins everywhere – even protected areas.

This statement completely backs up my earlier comment on another post that I stated skin oil is ok for copper coins in lower circulated grades. Copper coins that have been circulated and then stored become dullish and hazy when these skin oils begin to dry and are not replaced with continuous handling. When I am conserving an older copper type coins, I sometimes use my skin oil to replace the protective coating that had been on the coin for many years. This usually brings out the rich dark surfaces and provides a bit of reflectivity on an otherwise dull lifeless coin if left uncoated. Handling higher grade MS copper coins with bare hands is not recommended as it will cause discoloration at some point from the acids in sweat but the skin oil itself is not harmful as RWB stated it acts as a protectant if kept on the coin.

[RWB]

On 8/15/2024 at 11:55 AM, Mike Meenderink said:

This statement completely backs up my earlier comment on another post that I stated skin oil is ok for copper coins in lower circulated grades. Copper coins that have been circulated and then stored become dullish and hazy when these skin oils begin to dry and are not replaced with continuous handling. When I am conserving an older copper type coins, I sometimes use my skin oil to replace the protective coating that had been on the coin for many years. This usually brings out the rich dark surfaces and provides a bit of reflectivity on an otherwise dull lifeless coin if left uncoated. Handling higher grade MS copper coins with bare hands is not recommended as it will cause discoloration at some point from the acids in sweat but the skin oil itself is not harmful as RWB stated it acts as a protectant if kept on the coin.

However, there is also the risk of a TPG saying your coin has been "thumbed," regardless of which finger is used.

[Mike Meenderink]

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