How can the NGC forums bring more value? 0

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

The NGC forum is a relatively small group of regular posters, and a group of less common posters that tend to lead the group down unwanted rabbit holes.  The content on this forum seems to be losing value.  Most of us get nothing from reading 25 replies on a parking lot coin, and the Marketplace has become a scammers paradise of junk coins.

I know some do not want to give away their "secrets", but how do we bring some numismatic value back to these boards?  Can we start a forum to get deep on a series (challenging dates, best/worst strikes, census data, nuances, etc)?  I don't even care which series... I would just love a numismatic thread that is not about 1964 SMS Coins and/or parking lot errors.  I would love a thread where it doesn't devolve into off-topic nonsense.  These types of threads are becoming more rare the  the coins we collect.

I am open to anything that is more numismatic, and a fun topic that could serve as a nice resource to people in the future.

Does anyone here agree with the idea and the sentiment? If so, can we start a corner that is really devoted to numismatics without the junk and off-topic remarks? 

[Just Bob]

I've been a member of the NGC forum exclusively, and have never had a desire to join any others, although I do occasionally lurk on a few. Recently though, I've given serious consideration to trying to find another forum that actually had threads about topics that interest me, and not just "what is my parking lot penny worth?"  Don't get me wrong; I understand that newbies with questions need a place to go where they can get accurate information, and that somebody needs to try to take a stand and correct all of the misinformation that's out there. I am certainly willing to pitch in, and try to do my part. But, as you said, what I would consider quality posts, things that actually are thought-provoking, are sorely lacking on this form. One of the problems is that there are few active members who respond to threads, so even the interesting threads die out quickly, or get sidetracked into something that has nothing to do with the original subject. This can make members who post interesting topics conclude that it isn't really worth the effort to try.

[ldhair]

I had the same thoughts a year or two ago. I was posting a few threads each week with what should have been fun topics. They failed. Few members bothered to post. Probably because we have so few members that ever post. We have lost several members because of the actions of a member or two that could not stay on topic. They had to post long off topic garbage in every thread and pretty much killed the threads. I'm sure most here know who I'm talking about. No need for names.

Another thing that hurts is that we lost the dealers that posted here and shared some fun information. They gave up on this site. Maybe because of the lack of moderation. Someone can insult others with all kinds of nasty words and never get banned. 

I'll stop there. 

 

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

@Just Bob and @ldhair you make very valid points.  And, you two are some of the good ones here.  I agree that we SHOULD have an area where true newbies can post their items and get feedback.  

I also agree that we have some that routinely post here that are determined to be nothing more than a distraction.  We know who is notorious for getting threads off topic or making them toxic.  We can't block them from the board, but we can ignore them if it gets out of hand.  Also, let's bump Numismatically valuable threads and let the bad ones sink (we seem to always do the opposite here).

I share in the frustration, and I am hopeful that those that want to REALLY study numismatics can band together and have meaningful discussions.  This may mean that we have to self-moderate, and call people out for getting your threads off topic (and possibly just ignoring others)... but I think we could bring more value to this place if we have the right level of commitment by the members here.  

[RWB]

Casual observation suggests that almost all of the kinds of "interesting threads" that the OP mentions, receive only a few responses and then drop out of sight. Much the same is noted on PCGS and other boards. The number of members with sufficient knowledge or experience to respond might be limited, or viewers might be absorbing information but not feeling confident to participate. The "numismatics" of United States Colonial and Federal coinage is very young, and does not have the tight connection to archeology as in other parts of the world. "Presidential" terms are not identifiable by portraits on coins or specific "old" events commemorated on the pieces. American archeologists almost never use in-situ coins for dating except to confirm other dating techniques. Also, so little is actually known and documented about America's commercial monetary instruments, that we don't actually know much about what and how coins were really used. Further, there is no space or audience on message boards for more than brief comments and explanations.

It would be really nice to see forums increase in collector value.

Edited June 19 by RWB

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

@RWB totally fair.  There are certainly various levels of numismatic study.  If we were to talk about number of DCAM strikes a die can make by series, this would be something that very few can talk about (but I would appreciate).  If we are going to talk about the easiest/toughest dates in a series to acquire fully struck... many collectors could contribute.  I think this is what you mean by "collector value."

Frankly, I would be happy with either.  In my mind, it is not that difficult to have incremental improvement based on where we are today.  We have some very talented people here (yourself included).  We just need to talent to overshadow the nonsense.  

My knowledge of coins is likely laughable compared to most of you here.  I am pretty much brand new compared to this group.  So, if I am frustrated with a lack of numismatic/collector value, I cannot be the only one.  It has to be painful for the more advanced people.  The good news is... those are the very people who can make it better.

[RWB]

The only "laughable" part is not learning and not asking questions. We see that even with parking lot coins when the submitter asks sensible quest8ios, rather than making absurd claims. Common sense, and clear questions almost always get meaningful results.

[powermad5000]

In the newbie section here, you have to expect the sort of "endless" parking lot, dryer, spooned, damaged coin threads. Most newbies don't know any better. And while it may be tiring to have to nearly copy and paste responses to these threads in this section of the forum, it still needs to be done as we do see the damage done through the wild west of the open internet (I'll call out YouTube coin videos here). That garbage needs immediate correction no matter how tiring it gets for us.

I think there are some better topics in the US, World, and Ancients section. RWB has posted several interesting threads there as well as I have read a few by others. I tired to start a couple on there to see where they would go, but they died quickly, maybe due to the topic material or the actual coin series in the topic.

It could be possible to start a thread (hypothetical) titled say "Only Coronet Head Cents (1816-1839) and variety discussion". You would have to post clear rules in the opening of the the thread, i.e. no going off topic, any relevant information is worth posting, and the thread is to discuss any and every coin part of the series as well as variety attribution. And posting it in the newbie section is not the place for it.

As for the Coin Marketplace, I do not visit that section much. Being what that section is, however, whether people like it or not, due to its intent, that should have more moderation to keep it from turning into what you say it has. That's sad to hear as I was thinking of participating in that section more and that will make me not want to.

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

On 6/19/2024 at 6:57 PM, powermad5000 said:

In the newbie section here, you have to expect the sort of "endless" parking lot, dryer, spooned, damaged coin threads. Most newbies don't know any better. And while it may be tiring to have to nearly copy and paste responses to these threads in this section of the forum, it still needs to be done as we do see the damage done through the wild west of the open internet (I'll call out YouTube coin videos here). That garbage needs immediate correction no matter how tiring it gets for us.

I think there are some better topics in the US, World, and Ancients section. RWB has posted several interesting threads there as well as I have read a few by others. I tired to start a couple on there to see where they would go, but they died quickly, maybe due to the topic material or the actual coin series in the topic.

It could be possible to start a thread (hypothetical) titled say "Only Coronet Head Cents (1816-1839) and variety discussion". You would have tLove the ideaso post clear rules in the opening of the the thread, i.e. no going off topic, any relevant information is worth posting, and the thread is to discuss any and every coin part of the series as well as variety attribution. And posting it in the newbie section is not the place for it.

As for the Coin Marketplace, I do not visit that section much. Being what that section is, however, whether people like it or not, due to its intent, that should have more moderation to keep it from turning into what you say it has. That's sad to hear as I was thinking of participating in that section more and that will make me not want to.

Love the ideas, and agree that newbies absolutely should post coins when they have questions.  But, to read 7 pages of replies on a damaged coin and read 1-2 responses on a legitimate collector coin/series? It's overkill that only kills us.  Every time we respond, we bump the bad listing to the top.  I am going to do my best to simply "like" the first correct answer.  Newbies can then get the answers and the others are not mired in threads that bring little/no value.

Edited June 20 by The Neophyte Numismatist

[Henri Charriere]

On 6/19/2024 at 9:46 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

The NGC forum is a relatively small group of regular posters,.... 

 

Can we start a forum to get deep on a series (challenging dates, best/worst strikes, census data, nuances, etc)?  I don't even care which series....

Much like Rikers Island is not a jail but a complex of ten jails, NGC is not a forum, but several forums of which this forum is but a part.

As regarding, "Can we start a forum to get deep on series..."?  I am afraid this query while on-topic, ought to be directed to the Administrator of the Chat Board. 

The value of this forum would be enhanced by the introduction of a Topic dedicated to ERRORS in view of the inordinate amount of time and space devoted to just this one aspect of the hobby.

***

With regard to the member alluded to by you and the others, I will speak to him personally to see what can be done to modify his conduct and ratchet down his outsized presence on the Board.

 

[powermad5000]

On 6/20/2024 at 7:05 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

I am going to do my best to simply "like" the first correct answer.  Newbies can then get the answers and the others are not mired in threads that bring little/no value.

I have been doing this to some degree in the newbie section. If I come to a thread late and there are already 6 comments on how something is die deterioration and I agree with those comments, I pretty much just give out some likes and move on. There is no reason to me really for me to be the 7th person to say the same thing that has already been said. And it frees up my time to be able to read into other threads.

[Henri Charriere]

Further to my comment posted yesterday...

I believe the most appropriate avenue to take as regarding the introduction of a "forum" would be setting forth your proposal and rationale addressed to an Administrator on "Ask NGC/NCS." 

[ Just got off the wire with that duo of alter-egos you had alluded to yesterday, and am pleased to inform you that one, speaking on behalf of both, has given me his solemn promise he will limit his presence on your Topics and threads to emojis. I am confident he will comply with your wish to reduce his profile and presence to such a degree as to enhance all members' viewing experiences.  Effective immediately. ]    

Edited Saturday at 01:49 AM by Henri Charriere
Additional developments.

[GoldFinger1969]

I've done my part to create and refresh interesting topics that I thought would get some traction here at NGC.  A few certainly have -- 6-12 pages of threads and great comments.  And there's always the RWB Saint-Gaudens Book Thread approaching 90 pages !!   I have a personal bias to that thread and the coin but anybody with an interest in or actual Saint coins is going to find a wealth of information there above and beyond what you will see in any book or other online resource.  Like a gold mine, you have tons of dirt surrounding some very valuable nuggets from many esteemed posters !   You just have to know where to look/read and find the nuggets.

With a smaller number of threads, however, I see the same problem happening over at other sites, too.  While a few threads get lots of traction and tons of posts -- fraud and scammer threads, GTG threads on an expensive coin, in-depth reviews of big Coin Shows, CAC and CACG stuff, etc. -- lots of other threads that had potential seem to die on the vine.  I refresh the thread...we get 1-3 posts....and it goes back into a Deep Freeze.

No rhyme or reason except the topics I listed above (especially the CAC/CACG threads).

I get frustrated when some of our more valuable posters like Sandon have to waste time posting the same response to the latest newbie poster who asks what the value of a coin is with a face value of less than $1.00.  For some reason, we here at NGC are getting the YouTube and TikTok "You May Already Be A Millionaire" coin video crowd. 

We've had some good threads ourselves here on some of the more popular coin series (i.e., Saints...but surprisingly not much on MSDs)...use of gold coins in business/commerce....CAC/CACG....the business vs. hobby and long-term interest/demographics of the collecting side....and of course, gold and PM prices.

I'd welcome more daily postings and more active threads but not a quantum leap in activity.  Makes it tough then to read everything and participate in all the active threads.

Edited Sunday at 03:33 AM by GoldFinger1969