LadyCharms Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 Hello everyone. I’m new here but been collecting for over ten years and just learning as I go. I’ve never had anything evaluated or graded by professional service but I’m trying to gather some together for that purpose. As I was going through I found this 2014 P quarter Shenandoah and from what I’ve read there is no errors that have been verified or validated. But I really think I came across one today in my stock. I can clearly see doubling in “liberty” and in “quarter” and it’s not easy to see it in these pictures but the mint mark P is also doubled. Is this a coin I should have sent in for grading? Any feedback, input or suggestions are greatly appreciated and welcomed. Thanks so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 Welcome to the NGC chat board. First of all, please note that a coin struck from a doubled die would be classified as a die variety, not as a mint error. The variety would pertain to most or all coins struck from that die, while a mint error is generally produced by a problem in producing a particular coin. Based on your photos, which are somewhat blurry, there are faint, shelf-like extra images that are not indicative of a doubled die. This is likely strike doubling (a.k.a. machine or mechanical doubling), which results from the die being loose in the press and is very common. See Double Dies vs. Machine Doubling | NGC (ngccoin.com). Such coins do not command a premium and should not be submitted to third-party grading services, which will not attribute them. For more about strike doubling and other forms of doubling on coins that do not have collector value, see https://www.doubleddie.com/144801.html and links therein on mechanical doubling, die deterioration doubling, and abrasion doubling. Since 1996, when the mint changed its method of manufacturing dies to a "single squeeze", there are far fewer significant doubled die varieties. There are some minor ones that can be found on the doubleddie.com and varietyvista.com websites. J P M and powermad5000 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenstang Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 Welcome to the NGC Chat Board It looks to me like that it is Die Deterioration Doubling ( another worthless type of doubling) by looking at the the flow marks and how all the “doubling” is flowing towards the rim. This is caused by a worn die and is fairly common. powermad5000 and J P M 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 [Clarification Note: "Strike Doubling" did NOT occur when Management prevented union members from eating 2 doughnuts instead of one, so they went on strike.] ThePhiladelphiaPenny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 Welcome to the forum, as @Sandon correctly explained a doubled die coin is not an error but rather a variety. It may seem like we are hammering you on this point but it would be important because if you actually had a doubled die coin and submitted it to NGC as an error you would be charged the fee and would not get what you expected when the coin returns. Getting the terminology correct could save you money in the future. As already noted your coin is suffering from one of the worthless and common types of mechanical doubling vs true hub doubling. While these worthless types of doubling can be interesting to view, because they occur so frequently during the high-speed manufacturing of coins they have no numismatic value and TPG's like NGC do not attribute mechanical doubling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 Hello and welcome to the forum! What I immediately noted on your coin was the flow lines in the metal of the fields flowing out towards the rim. This is an indication that the coin was struck with a late stage set of dies that were basically worn out. Most know the Mint is notorious for overusing dies to the point of failure to save money. I also noted immediately this effect basically surrounding the either letters in LIBERTY. This is a second indication that what you are seeing is not a true hub doubling and would not be considered a DDO but rather would be die deterioration doubling or aka die erosion doubling. It is not a form that collectors have any interest in and is very common on many series of coins past and present. It adds no value to the coin. This would definitely not be a coin to submit for grading. For the future, DDO, DDR, RPM, and RPD are not mint errors but rather varieties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 Doubled Dies vs. Machine Doubling Posted on 1/10/2017 The distinction between genuine die doubling and mechanical doubling can be subtle, but they can easily be differentiated with just a loupe and a bit of knowledge. One of the more common questions that NGC Customer Service receives is regarding the difference between a doubled die and machine doubling. This distinction is very important, because a doubled die variety may be worth a large premium, while machine doubling is a mere novelty and does not usually add value. Double dies A true doubled die is a variety in that it is created during the die making process. As a result, the doubling will appear on every coin struck from that die. In the past, doubled die errors were often much more dramatic due to the process in which dies were created. This method often required multiple impressions from a working hub to impart the detail into a die. If the hub or die shifted at all during this process, the finished die would feature two distinct impressions with separation between them. The design, letters and digits will be doubled. 1955 Doubled Die Obverse Lincoln Cent Click images to enlarge. One of the most famous doubled die coins is, of course, the 1955 Lincoln Cent with a doubled die obverse. It is extremely rare that such dramatic doubling would slip through unnoticed at the US Mint. At the time, the Philadelphia Mint was running two 12-hour shifts in order to help alleviate a cent shortage. At least seven people were supposed to have inspected the die before it was put into use, but that clearly was not the case here. Instead, the die was placed in service for a midnight to 8:00 am shift. The problem was not discovered until some 20,000-24,000 cents had already been mixed in with the millions of other cents struck that night. The Chief Coiner of the Philadelphia Mint, Sydney C. Engel, decided to let the coins through instead of melting a total of approximately 10 million cents to contain them. Those 1955 Doubled Die Obverse Lincoln cents are now one of the most sought-after varieties in coin collecting. Mechanical doubling On the other hand, there is mechanical doubling. This type of doubling, which is also known as strike, ejection, shelf or shift doubling, is not the result of the design on the die being doubled. Rather, this type of doubling occurs when the die strikes a planchet. If the die is not properly seated, it can move slightly or bounce during the moment of striking, creating a flat, shelf-like doubling. This effect will be different on all coins struck, so it is technically not a variety, but rather more of a striking error. Example of machine or strike doubling Click images to enlarge. Above is an example of machine or strike doubling. Notice how the doubling is very flat in appearance and there are serifs in the letters that are not separated. Example of a genuine doubled die coin Click images to enlarge. Above is another example of a genuine doubled die coin (the 1972 Doubled Die Obverse Lincoln Cent). Notice how there is a clear separation between the serifs on all the letters. This proves that the doubling was created during the hubbing process rather than during the striking of the actual coin. Sometimes however, both types of doubling can be seen on the same coin, such as on the coin below. 1951 Romania 2 Lei with a doubled die and also mechanical doubling Click images to enlarge. 1951 Romania 2 Lei where the doubled die has been shaded blue and the mechanical doubling has been shaded red Click images to enlarge. The above coin is a 1951 Romania 2 Lei. There is very pronounced doubling on all the numerals in the date. However, this coin also has mechanical doubling! In the second photo, the doubled die has been shaded blue, whereas the mechanical doubling is red. As you can see, the die doubling looks exactly like the primary numeral only shifted to the west. There is clear separation between the two, including split serifs. On the other hand, the red-shaded strike doubling is much flatter in appearance, and there is no separation between it and the main number. Hunting for varieties can be a very fun and rewarding endeavor, but it is important to know what is truly a variety. Hopefully this article can help you to discern the difference between doubled die coins and coins with mechanical doubling. Sources: Lange, David W. The Complete Guide to Lincoln Cents. Zyrus Press, 2005. Articles List powermad5000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
