brass coins error or not. 1 1

[brasscoins]

I sent a text to H.A I asked them a question about a brass plated zink coin they sold at auction. Why is a brass plated zink coin considered an error, when the coins in the copper, bronze, era, if the mix wasn't quite right kicked out tons of brass coins that are not considered errors. What's the difference?. To date they have not answered my text. 

[powermad5000]

First off, what is the coin they sold at auction? Could you provide us either photos of it or the link to auction end where we can see the coin they sold?

Without knowing what it is they sold and what year, it is hard to answer your question. As far as cents go though, I can only assume you are referring to modern Lincoln Cents which were struck on either brass planchets, or bronze planchets, or copper-plated zinc planchets. The zinc (not zink) planchets would have all been copper-plated so if one was somehow stuck with a brass plating, that would lead to it being a mint error as it should have been copper-plated, not brass plated.

[Sandon]

   You are apparently referring to a 1982 or later copper-plated zinc cent whose copper plating had been contaminated with zinc, resulting in the plating having a yellowish color referred to as "brassy plating". See https://www.error-ref.com/?s=brass+plating for a full explanation. I don't find this slight color difference of much interest either, but there are apparently enough collectors who do to make grading services consider it worthy of attribution. 

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 4/22/2024 at 6:58 PM, brasscoins said:

I sent a text to H.A I asked them a question about a brass plated zink coin they sold at auction. Why is a brass plated zink coin considered an error, when the coins in the copper, bronze, era, if the mix wasn't quite right kicked out tons of brass coins that are not considered errors. What's the difference?. To date they have not answered my text. 

Link to the auction listing please. 

[Mike Meenderink]

During the plating process there are/were several contaminants present in the plating solution. Even low concentrations of hexavalent chromium, which can be dragged into the bath on the racks, will produce dull and spotty deposits. Chromium can be reduced quickly to its trivalent form and precipitated by the addition of proprietary reducing agents directly to the plating bath. Hexavalent chromium also can be converted to the inactive trivalent state by means of high-current-density electrolysis or by adding sodium hydrosulfite or sodium stannite. There is disputed evidence that trivalent chromium left in the plating bath can be re-oxidized by air back to hexavalent chromium. The best procedure is to precipitate the chromium and remove it by filtering.

Zinc contaminants will plate out simultaneously with the copper, causing brittle and brassy looking deposits. Zinc can be removed by dummying the bath at 0.2–0.4 A/dm². Dummying also removes many other metallic contaminants. Sulfur and its compounds cause dull, red deposits in low-current-density areas. These usually appear in deposits from new baths as a result of the use of impure cyanides or leaching out contaminants from tank linings, racks and anode bags. This is why some zinc copper plated cents have a different tone or color to them. Cheers

Edited April 23 by Mike Meenderink

[brasscoins]

https://coins.ha.com/itm/errors/1997-1c-lincoln-cent-brass-plating-ms64-red-ngc/a/131401-20323.s.

This is the link to the Heritage auction. The coin is ngc graded 1997 LMC. I understand that having a plating issue is just that, an issue not an error( in my opinion). But during WWll when the armed forces were taking all the copper, the mints took mega tons of spent brass casings, and made coins with them. I don't understand why now, a brass colored LMC is an error. 

[Sandon]

    The plating of copper-plated zinc cents is supposed to be pure copper, and whatever amount of zinc is in the plating--possibly more than the 5% that was used in the homogeneous alloy of both 1944-46 and 1962-82 brass cents--gives the coins a noticeably different color, which some collectors apparently find significant. 

[Coinbuf]

On 4/23/2024 at 6:57 AM, brasscoins said:

https://coins.ha.com/itm/errors/1997-1c-lincoln-cent-brass-plating-ms64-red-ngc/a/131401-20323.s.

This is the link to the Heritage auction. The coin is ngc graded 1997 LMC. I understand that having a plating issue is just that, an issue not an error( in my opinion). But during WWll when the armed forces were taking all the copper, the mints took mega tons of spent brass casings, and made coins with them. I don't understand why now, a brass colored LMC is an error. 

Your link takes us to a page not found, perhaps HA decided to pull the item.   As far as the reason it was not an error in WWII is that was done intentionally vs the modern day brassy cents which are not intentional.   As the modern brassy cents are not intentional, they would have to be considered a variety or an error; it would seem that NGC decided placing them under the error umbrella is the proper choice in their opinion.

[brasscoins]

https://coins.ha.com/itm/errors/1997-1c-lincoln-cent-brass-plating-ms64-red-ngc/a/131401-20323.s I'll try to post this one last time I checked it before I copied it, and it worked so I hope it won't let me down now. I guess we will all have our own opinions, and just move on, we don't have the ability to make the change that best suits each of us. So good hunting to all you CRH. 

[Just Bob]

[brasscoins]

Here is one thing that concerns me about grading these modern LMC's. That some where down the road, someone else will make a stink about, if the moderns can be graded for the brass plating, they will want the older coins graded as well. There was a write up done by a well known, well let's just leave it there. They mentioned that there wasn't a lot of these brass plated coins and that's what made them gradable errors. I'm willing to bet, that everyone who reads the post, and these comments, has held at least one brass plated LMC in there fingers and went hmmmm, is it worth it. Because let's face it, these coins grading mid ms, are selling for good money. And it's not that hard to find them CRH. So that's my story and I'm sticking to it. In the grand scheme of things, I have two LWC from the fifties that are so gold/ orangish, that I would stop and say to myself, those must be straight brass. From 1909 - present there are literally millions of brass and brass plated coins in circulation. I'm just not sure that there are so few that they could be considered an error or a variety. Nuff said, at the end of the day if you enjoy the hobby, and when you go to bed at night and your satisfied that what you found CRH, what you bought, or what you sold makes you happy. That's what makes the hobby great. We can agree to disagree, and at the end of the day, as long as your satisfied, that's all that matters. 

[powermad5000]

This thread got me to thinking, and a long time ago, I made a purchase at a coin shop of the cent I am including in the picture below. I bought this cent because it had a different look to it than the regular copper plated ones I am so used to seeing, and the shop had it in a sleeve with a handwritten tag calling it a "Yellow Jacket". Perhaps this topic is what they were referring to. I labeled the slab with my own tag when it came back because it just looks different. I submitted this straight not thinking it could be a mint error. Now, I might have to dig this out of my SDB and give it another hard look, and maybe resubmit it and see what happens.

[Fenntucky Mike]

Interesting, I had not heard of this before.

The only question I have is how much zinc needs to be present in the plating for it to be considered an error? If only based on color then your opening a can of worms. 

I would also assume that this is fairly common. 

EDIT TO ADD:

It wouldn't surprise me if TPG's won't authenticate this type of error anymore.

Edited April 24 by Fenntucky Mike

[J P M]

Oh no not another thing to look for when roll hunting. I see cents of a different color all the time and think that it is because of the zinc core, or someone left the coin in the cup holder in the car to long.

[brasscoins]

There is a reply to this thread from Mr Mike Meenderink. He has given us all a very thorough, scientific, explanation about the mixes. It's not the color solely, that makes these coins "errors". They do have a brass plate, the problem is that it doesn't take much of a change to the mix, to change it from copper, to bronze, or brass. That's where the problem exists in my humble opinion. They seem to have a problem controlling the mix,  Or the aftermath from the mix, to the cleaning, and the washing and drying getting chemicals from one step to the next and soon you have a Frankenstein. In my opinion. 

[J P M]

On 4/24/2024 at 1:24 PM, brasscoins said:

There is a reply to this thread from Mr Mike Meenderink. He has given us all a very thorough, scientific, explanation about the mixes. It's not the color solely, that makes these coins "errors". They do have a brass plate, the problem is that it doesn't take much of a change to the mix, to change it from copper, to bronze, or brass. That's where the problem exists in my humble opinion. They seem to have a problem controlling the mix,  Or the aftermath from the mix, to the cleaning, and the washing and drying getting chemicals from one step to the next and soon you have a Frankenstein. In my opinion. 

I think anything after 1981 is a mess once the core is exposed it is all down hill from there eventually, they all end up looking like Frankenstein 

[brasscoins]

Well thank you all for your participation in the question error or not. It's another variety to search for in the long list of treasures waiting to be discovered.