Of the 333 million presumably alive and well and residing in the United States today, how many are "coin collectors?" 1 1

[Henri Charriere]

There's been an awful lot of conjecture on at least two, possibly three current topics, asserting any number of debatable "facts," all of are difficult to prove due to a multiplicity of factors including figures from a variety of sources as well as personal experiences. None, unfortunately, are above reproach. Let's get down to hard facts. Volunteer a figure and cite an unimpeachable source, or sources, for your assertion.

[World Colonial]

There isn't a reliable number.  It's also substantially dependent upon definition of "collector".

The starting point to me is the number of mint and proof sets sold by the US Mint but it isn't a one-to-one ratio.  Same idea for US Mint NCLT sales.

[Jason Abshier]

Too hard to get a very good estimate . Even sales of US mint only counts toward US collectors , big world out there collectors from every corner not all about collecting USA mint or coinage from US …can’t do estimate how many people attend the shows not really accurate either … bidding platforms aren’t accurate as well with dealers and collectors both bidding … members on here is either a hit and miss ,there may be a lot older collectors don’t use internet and chat forums that are not accounted for, guess nobody really knows answer to that one I’d say out of 333 million in USA alone I’d say probably 1-2% probably does some form of collecting Numismatic wise 

Edited April 13 by Jason Abshier

[VKurtB]

It’s more than you think, but fewer than there needs to be. We need to wean people OFF of YouTube videos. 

[Jason Abshier]

On 4/13/2024 at 4:37 PM, VKurtB said:

We need to wean people OFF of YouTube videos. 

All my dream would come true if that were to happen … I highly doubt we would ever achieve that , internet has ruined to hobby with misinformation to its rotten core ! I’m surprised some long members on here stick around to this day to constantly tell people they have parking lot coin …. I would like hear from grading company as well how many fools actually send in parking lot coins ? I’m sure it’s high !!! The future of this hobby is bright !!! Full of new bright minded people who don’t want to learn …. 

[GoldFinger1969]

I define coin collector as ACTIVE...either buying or LOOKING at coins...or reading, posting, learning about coins in between purchases.

I'm going to say about 5 million with maybe half of them under the age of 21.  That does NOT include bullion investors who might buy AGEs or Saints which are both coins and bullion.

[Henri Charriere]

Well, gentlemen, I saw this coming so I am going to ratchet up the pressure and provide more definitions. Here are some, subject to revision...

U.S. collectors irrespective of their area of interest;

U.S. Mint products are acceptable; bullion, bars, ingots, and the like are not, unless they bear dates. (Many collect both. That's okay.)

TPGS membership numbers are a start; the late-nite TV viewer is not. To me, Binion (deceased) was neither a numismatist or a collector.

Forget YouTube. Active/Retired collectors, those who frequent online sites in the absence of the one-time proliferation of storefronts) count as do those who attend coin shows; those who throw change in jars, indiscriminately, regrettably, do not. RWB and EC count; inheriting a collection does not a collector make. Whether an heir is, or isn't, relies on intent and future plans.

I believe with hard numbers, it may be possible to extrapolate plausible percentages which may go a long way in determining the current state and future health of the hobby.

[VKurtB]

The United States Mint said, years ago, during the beginning of the State Quarter series, that there was an insane number of coin collectors based on how many albums, folders, and maps were being sold for State Quarters. Many were given as gifts. How many survived? We may never know. We know for certain that the number of collectors had been overstated. My son’s maps were completed with all uncirculated coins, and remain “upstairs in the man cave” today.

[Rob’s Coins]

On 4/13/2024 at 1:31 PM, Henri Charriere said:

… cite an unimpeachable source, or sources, for your assertion.

I’ll offer a fact.  If you go to NGC registry and points you can see where you stand among all NGC collectors.  If you go to the bottom of this list you will see that there are 33,327 users with at least one coin in the registry.  
Of the 333 million, I have no Idea but would take a shot at 1/20 have an about 5 decent coins, just based on my experience with casual talk among friends and family.  None have any tpg coins. 

I must edit and add that 1-2 registry points is probably not a stellar keepsake!  :-)

Edited April 14 by Rob’s Coins
1-2 points

[World Colonial]

On 4/13/2024 at 6:07 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I define coin collector as ACTIVE...either buying or LOOKING at coins...or reading, posting, learning about coins in between purchases.

I'm going to say about 5 million with maybe half of them under the age of 21.  That does NOT include bullion investors who might buy AGEs or Saints which are both coins and bullion.

I think 5MM is way too many.  That would be about one in every 60 to 70 people in the country.  This ratio also incorporates demographic groups which have a much lower to non-existent participation rate (women and currently defined minorities), meaning the participation rate of the primary collector demographic will have to be noticeably higher.

Are collectors really encountering other collectors that often as this number suggests?

[World Colonial]

On 4/14/2024 at 12:51 PM, VKurtB said:

The United States Mint said, years ago, during the beginning of the State Quarter series, that there was an insane number of coin collectors based on how many albums, folders, and maps were being sold for State Quarters. Many were given as gifts. How many survived? We may never know. We know for certain that the number of collectors had been overstated. My son’s maps were completed with all uncirculated coins, and remain “upstairs in the man cave” today.

Above I mentioned US Mint customers as one indication.  Post above mine mentions registry set members.  There are also registered users at Heritage and GC, though Heritage includes more than just coins and some proportion of non-US-based collectors.

Then there is eBay which currently has (right now) about 1.7MM US listings, another 1.6MM for world (including Canada), and 175K ancient and medieval.  This is an even less precise measure, because it's not all by US based sellers and it contains a lot of overpriced material that will never sell or coins collectors don't actually want, but it is a data point, imprecise as it is.

You may know number of coin club members with ANA affiliated clubs.  Number of dealers is another indication, but no idea how this compares to the past.  My assumption is fewer dealers than previously but if not, definitely B&M. 

Checked in ATL recently and there seem to be about half a dozen in the metro area that I would describe as traditional hobbyist dealers with a similar number of bullion or "investment" sellers.  (World Numismatics, the one with the best inventory here when I was a YN in the 70s, closed about a year ago.)  Not counting pawn shops or "We Buy Gold" outlets.  Number of coin club members for the metro area from a prior review of the ANA website indicated maybe a few hundred.  This is for a population approaching 6MM now.  I wouldn't call ATL a numismatic desert, but it's not the NE US either.

[Henri Charriere]

On 4/14/2024 at 3:02 PM, Rob’s Coins said:

I’ll offer a fact.  If you go to NGC registry and points you can see where you stand among all NGC collectors.  If you go to the bottom of this list you will see that there are 33,327 users with at least one coin in the registry.  
Of the 333 million, I have no Idea but would take a shot at 1/20 have an about 5 decent coins, just based on my experience with casual talk among friends and family.  None have any tpg coins. 

I must edit and add that 1-2 registry points is probably not a stellar keepsake!  :-)

I am actually quite pleased you took the time and trouble to post this last of 328 pages.  It serves to illustrate the fact that the numbers of individual collectors changes over time. Many "Blue whales" have a tractor-trailer full of different sets.  It came to my attention recently that, while the numbers of collectors of my series has grown to just under 100 sets, a closer look divulges the majority of the sets in the top ten bear one man's user handle and his various sets are apparently devoted to members of his family. Many set registrants utilize their upgraded coins to start 2d and 3d sets.  Oddly, while the number of mintages, certifications,TPG memberships, and coin show attendees help define the hobby's size, they too are hobbled by a number of factors one may not be inclined to factor in.  My view is the figure for "coin collectors" is inflated.

[cladking]

If you define "collector" as anyone with a collection of coins that they are studying and increasing or simply has an advanced collection then there are probably at the very least 10,000,000 collectors.  About 1,000,000 of them buy supplies, services, or coins on a continuing basis.  The number is still lower than in 1964 but is approaching it.  

[RWB]

Proportion of the population is the critical value.

The second is our current definition of "collector."

Third is the product mix availability.

[VKurtB]

On 4/15/2024 at 10:43 AM, cladking said:

If you define "collector" as anyone with a collection of coins that they are studying and increasing or simply has an advanced collection then there are probably at the very least 10,000,000 collectors.  About 1,000,000 of them buy supplies, services, or coins on a continuing basis.  The number is still lower than in 1964 but is approaching it.  

The number of members in the ANA today is well ABOVE that in 1964. 

[brg5658]

I love exercises in futility. 

[cladking]

On 4/15/2024 at 1:26 PM, VKurtB said:

The number of members in the ANA today is well ABOVE that in 1964. 

I wasn't aware of this.  

When I was young back in the late-'50's/ early '60's most of my friends were collectors though most rarely bought coins or supplies.  I suppose it's possible that it's more  widespread today than I believed.  

I've been trying to get the numbers for coin folders that are printed each year but haven't succeeded.  I'm sure it's very substantial because I see these everywhere except filled and walking into coin shops.  Obviously there are a lot of state quarter collectors.  

[GoldFinger1969]

On 4/15/2024 at 11:43 AM, cladking said:

If you define "collector" as anyone with a collection of coins that they are studying and increasing or simply has an advanced collection then there are probably at the very least 10,000,000 collectors.  About 1,000,000 of them buy supplies, services, or coins on a continuing basis.  The number is still lower than in 1964 but is approaching it.  

Any decent trade organization -- dealers, PNG, ANA, etc. -- should have hard numbers on this as I have said numerous times here.

I would NOT count someone as a collector who did the State Quarter program and then has the books collecting dust in a closet.

There are different levels of baseball, football, and sports fans.  But whether they watch EVERY game or just SOME of them, they have to have SOME interest.  They may not have season tickets or even goto a game, but they have to at least WATCH a game.  They have to have SOME knowledge of who is doing well and who is stinking up the joint.

Similarly, a coin collector to me should be someone who is at least ACTIVE in either buying or doing the things necessary to PREPARE for a future purchase:  reading a book....posting on a forum ()....attending a show....visiting an LCS....online article research...whatever.

[VKurtB]

On 4/16/2024 at 10:43 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I would NOT count someone as a collector who did the State Quarter program and then has the books collecting dust in a closet.

But the Mint clearly did. I’m not sure whether marketing spin or government employee spin is responsible.

[World Colonial]

On 4/16/2024 at 11:43 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Any decent trade organization -- dealers, PNG, ANA, etc. -- should have hard numbers on this as I have said numerous times here.

On the number of collectors?

Even aside from definitional differences, it's not possible.

[VKurtB]

On 4/16/2024 at 6:52 PM, World Colonial said:

On the number of collectors?

Even aside from definitional differences, it's not possible.

Yes, because the one thing you can ALWAYS count on is coin collectors being chatty about what they own. /eye roll so huge you can hear it

Face it: most of the most advanced collections today are cloaked in 100% secrecy. If ANYONE knows what’s out there, it’s the dealers that top collectors are working with.

Edited April 17 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 4/15/2024 at 2:26 PM, VKurtB said:

The number of members in the ANA today is well ABOVE that in 1964. 

Any hard numbers ?

[VKurtB]

On 4/17/2024 at 12:42 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Any hard numbers ?

Sure. There are approximately 27,000 current dues paid members. The high water mark was pre-Amos ANACS, when you had to be an ANA member to submit coins to ANACS.

[Henri Charriere]

On 4/15/2024 at 2:42 PM, brg5658 said:

I love exercises in futility. 

You.may be right.  This thread rapidly descended into classic z-pekinese. You know... ... no collector is obligated to disclose the extent of his holdings... this information is private and confidential... if you receive a phone call or written survey, you have the consitutional right to decline and remain silent.. if these unknown parties persist, you have the option of blocking them... and if they show up on your doorstep, unannounced, you have the right to exercise your rights under the Second Amendment... Of course, if the unanticipated guests are representatives of an arm of the Federal Government, you may wish to retain your composure and suggest they get in touch with your barrister... there is an app for that... it is commonly referred to as a retainer devised for just such emergencies...  

[powermad5000]

I have a hard time with the answer to this question being what do we define as a collector? Is not someone who bought a Whitman album when the statehood quarters were released and filled such said album as they were released, now having a full statehood quarter album not a collector even if they have collected no other coins? I think they would be considered a "casual" collector. It would be difficult to pin down a number on these people as they will never submit a single coin to a TPG, nor will they ever attend a coin show, but by technical definition are still a collector.

You also have amateur collectors, experienced collectors, and advanced collectors. These would comprise a number that could possibly be pinned down through submissions (but not all collectors submit and I am sure there are still many collectors with extensive collections that are raw).

I would say there is a high percentage of casual collectors which outnumber greatly the amateur, experienced, and advanced combined. To me, it would be impossible to accurately assign a specific number to the posted question.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 4/18/2024 at 11:07 PM, powermad5000 said:

I have a hard time with the answer to this question being what do we define as a collector? Is not someone who bought a Whitman album when the statehood quarters were released and filled such said album as they were released, now having a full statehood quarter album not a collector even if they have collected no other coins? I think they would be considered a "casual" collector. It would be difficult to pin down a number on these people as they will never submit a single coin to a TPG, nor will they ever attend a coin show, but by technical definition are still a collector. You also have amateur collectors, experienced collectors, and advanced collectors. These would comprise a number that could possibly be pinned down through submissions (but not all collectors submit and I am sure there are still many collectors with extensive collections that are raw).  I would say there is a high percentage of casual collectors which outnumber greatly the amateur, experienced, and advanced combined. To me, it would be impossible to accurately assign a specific number to the posted question.

Excellent points. 

I agree:  we here on these Forums are certainly SERIOUS or ACTIVE collectors.  Most people might fall into the LAPSED or INACTIVE categories.

Edited April 19 by GoldFinger1969

[Henri Charriere]

Teacher:  "What does your father do for a living?  Yes, Jimmy!

Jimmy:  My father collects coins. All kinds, but mostly quarters on "the Neck."  (The Throgmorton's Neck Bridge connecting the Bronx with Queens, NYC).

Teacher:  Anyone else?  Yes, Missy!

Missy:  My dad's a lawyer. He's a partner in a white shoe law firm down on Wall Street.

Teacher:  And you, Johnny? 

Johnny:  My mom's a doctor at Riverside Hospital.

Teacher:  Anybody else?...  Tommy?

Tommy:  My father really lucked out!  He's a licensed plumber! We've got a mini-mansion, a Gulf Stream IV, a '32 Deusenberg, a country club membership, and a  vacation home on Norman's Cay, our own private island in the Bahamas...   🤣

 

 

[VKurtB]

I wonder how many unique individual submitters (not dealers) each TPGS has. Then again, we have seemingly an unlimited number of people saving road rash damaged coins in a box or can, “learning” (as if…) about them by watching YouTube videos. 

Edited April 19 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

On 4/19/2024 at 3:06 PM, VKurtB said:

I wonder how many unique individual submitters (not dealers) each TPGS has. Then again, we have seemingly an unlimited number of people saving road rash damaged coins in a box or can, “learning” (as if…) about them by watching YouTube videos. 

I do not believe TPGS themselves would know. My understanding is that's the way submissions used to be done, i.e., through bulk submissions [until uncle z convinced them there's nothing to them at all anyone with a seventh grade education couldn't do himself]  Submission numbers, consecutively sequenced would be of no help. Many are revised annually and any outstanding forms left over discarded.

You know, every time I see that guy with his "The End is Near"  "Repent"  sign, or read another literary piece claiming the "hobby" is dying, much of what they say is true (aging collectors, the closure of storefronts, etc., but I don't recall seing hard numbers, only conjecture. I guess it's not something anyone would ordinarily bring up except dues-paying lurkers like Q.       

[VKurtB]

On 4/19/2024 at 2:32 PM, Henri Charriere said:

I do not believe TPGS themselves would know. My understanding is that's the way submissions used to be done, i.e., through bulk submissions [until uncle z convinced them there's nothing to them at all anyone with a seventh grade education couldn't do himself]  Submission numbers, consecutively sequenced would be of no help. Many are revised annually and any outstanding forms left over discarded.

You know, every time I see that guy with his "The End is Near"  "Repent"  sign, or read another literary piece claiming the "hobby" is dying, much of what they say is true (aging collectors, the closure of storefronts, etc., but I don't recall seing hard numbers, only conjecture. I guess it's not something anyone would ordinarily bring up except dues-paying lurkers like Q.       

The TPGS have to know how many members they have. It’s a simple database record count.