1995 W Silver 🦅 is this a 🔑 date 1 1

[bobbyboshay]

[Lem E]

Yes it is.

https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/missed-opportunities-1995-w-silver-eagle-a-stopper.html

[GoldFinger1969]

The price has come down a TON since that article and the Top Pop PR70DCAM/UCAM has gone from 7 to 23 to over 400 (I think that is both PCGS+NGC).

69's will sell for about $2,500 or so......70's I think are just under $10K. 

[bobbyboshay]

On 3/30/2024 at 12:28 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

The price has come down a TON since that article and the Top Pop PR70DCAM/UCAM has gone from 7 to 23 to over 400 (I think that is both PCGS+NGC).

69's will sell for about $2,500 or so......70's I think are just under $10K. 

Thanks for both of the replies I appreciate your comments I was just trying to figure how much ice cream 🍨 I could buy 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[ldhair]

Fun coin. Those that bought the proof gold set that year got the Silver Eagle free. Some didn't want the coin and just bought the regular proof gold set. They messed up. 

[Sandon]

   Yes, you may consider the 1995-W Proof Silver Eagle a "key" date in that series, just as you may consider the 1909-S V.D.B. cent a "key" date in the Lincoln cent series. However, a modern coin issued as a collector's item with 30,125 reported sold and nearly all likely still in existence in high grades can't be considered a truly "rare" coin. Their high price results from high demand that is largely driven by market hype. 

   There are a number of much lower mintage and scarcer U.S. coins that sell for a fraction of what these Silver Eagles cost, for example, post-1862 three cent silver pieces and certain gold dollars and classic commemoratives.  The challenge is to find them.

[bobbyboshay]

That true  all coins are market hype  one factor that can’t be ignored is the low mintage  is what makes them rare  if that’s wasn’t the case they all would be worth the same in the case of the 1995 W that will never happen  no matter what the grade they are worth more then any modern silver eagle from 60 -70  is there any other eagle that holds that type of value ? 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/30/2024 at 3:52 PM, Sandon said:

Yes, you may consider the 1995-W Proof Silver Eagle a "key" date in that series, just as you may consider the 1909-S V.D.B. cent a "key" date in the Lincoln cent series. However, a modern coin issued as a collector's item with 30,125 reported sold and nearly all likely still in existence in high grades can't be considered a truly "rare" coin. Their high price results from high demand that is largely driven by market hype. 

It's a condition scarcity thing, right Sandon ?  You had the 70DCAM/UCAM sell for $86,000 which was clearly a bubble when there were < 10 coins with that pedigree in 2013.  Today, there are over 400 !!! 

Like you said...we KNEW the supply would increase and the total pop numbers would jump -- just not by how much.  Some 68's, 69's, 70's, and 70DCAM's.  

On 3/30/2024 at 3:52 PM, Sandon said:

There are a number of much lower mintage and scarcer U.S. coins that sell for a fraction of what these Silver Eagles cost, for example, post-1862 three cent silver pieces and certain gold dollars and classic commemoratives.  The challenge is to find them.

Read Doug Winter's "What's Hot, What's Not" column for 2023 published a few days/weeks ago.  He mentions the scarcity degree for a Libertty Head DE that is not a common but not rare or very scarce.  Basic point was that it was 60x scarcer than the Liberty Head DE common but didn't sell obviously for 60x as much.

https://raregoldcoins.com/blog/2023/12/29/the-annual-dwn-whats-hot-whats-not-list-2023-edition

Also noted that commemoratives are literally the razor's edge:  no demand....not much supply...nobody promoting them.   Prices down 50% for Lewis & Clark from a decade ago so caveat emptor.

Edited March 31 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/30/2024 at 4:46 PM, bobbyboshay said:

That true  all coins are market hype  one factor that can’t be ignored is the low mintage  is what makes them rare  if that’s wasn’t the case they all would be worth the same in the case of the 1995 W that will never happen  no matter what the grade they are worth more then any modern silver eagle from 60 -70  is there any other eagle that holds that type of value ? 

No, except maybe that 2019-S Reverse Proof.  Not sure what has happened to pricing post-Covid for that one but I recall 70 DCAMs were maybe $1,500 or so ?

The thing with the 1995-W:  lots of people collect the ASE coins.  Once you start collecting every year's issue, then you had a built-in excuse to stretch to buy a coin that costs a few thousand dollars in 69 and maybe $10K for those with more $$$ to keep the streak going.  It's not like collecting Saints where most coins are under $5,000 and then to get any 1932 or other rare one you are talking 6 or 7-figures for any condition of the coin and that is something that 99% of people simply can't afford to do. 

That's one reason why there are so many more ASE collectors than other coin collectors and/or gold coin collectors.

Edited March 31 by GoldFinger1969

[Sandon]

    I have always made it a point to look for low mintage and/or hard to find coins that aren't usually or ever promoted and to avoid highly promoted pieces that are always available for a high price. I'd settle for circulated or even somewhat impaired examples of these coins, and even as such they can be quite hard to find notwithstanding deceptively low list prices.  Notwithstanding the lack of promotion, more serious collectors have become of how scarce these coins really are, and many of the pieces that I bought decades ago now sell for multiples of what I paid for them. They include the aforementioned three cent silvers and gold dollars but also include many scarcer Bust and Liberty Seated coins. When I have time, I will create a topic about such coins.

[Jason Abshier]

On 3/30/2024 at 4:46 PM, bobbyboshay said:

That true  all coins are market hype

The very first day they started 3rd party grading that’s when market went into hype … everyone trying get the highest grade coin in their collection which in return boost the prices up on all coins and series … sometimes we often wonder if 3rd party grading is what ruined the hobby ? Some say yeah some say no … just look at all the hype and high bidding going on for high grade coins … the hobby turned into a big investment platform within last 20+years or so since 3rd party started grading coins that just keep driving the prices higher and higher … everyone worry how much their coins are “worth” like there’s a Tom, and Harry around every corner ready to whip out the wallet and shell out high dollars for coins like it’s drugs they gotta have it 

Edited March 31 by Jason Abshier

[powermad5000]

On 3/30/2024 at 3:46 PM, bobbyboshay said:

all coins are market hype  one factor that can’t be ignored is the low mintage  is what makes them rare

This is not necessarily true. There are many O and S Morgan Dollars with high mintages in the millions but they are considered "scarce" in uncirculated condition. Many examples can be found in grades XF and below, but they become scarce in MS 60 and up. Take the 1883 S Morgan for example. 6,250,000 were minted. An AU 55 lists for $375 in the price guide. However, a only a few steps up, an MS 60 lists in the price guide for $1,200. And if you want one in MS 65, you will have to shell out $30,000.

The problem with your ASE example, is none of those are ever going to be circulated, and while splitting hairs over a 68 vs a 69 vs a 70, their prices are always going to be static no matter how many were minted. While that number may be lower than other years or mintmarks, it is only going to achieve a premium related to a specific collector demanding it be in a certain grade, but no more than that. I would say most of them have already been graded and are one of the three aforementioned grades.

Another example is a 1916 D Mercury Dime. While it is the key date of the series, its mintage number of 264,000 is not considered "rare" and I have come across many examples of them. It does, however, become very scarce in grades over XF.

Take old coppers for another example. The R numbers are generated by how many examples are survivors, not by how many were minted.

The point of "rarity" is not necessarily mintage number, but how difficult a coin is to locate either by type or grade.

[bobbyboshay]

Modern coins does not have the same structure of value as older coins this conversation is about silver eagle 🦅 not about regular circulate coins  your research is appreciated if we just stuck with the Silver eagle not circulating coins To you are there any other silver eagle coins considered Key 🔑 date and more valuable than the 1995 W don’t forget we are talking about the silver eagle not nickel dime or any other coins one gentleman stated the. Price drop from 86000 to 10000 if I’m not mistaken that’s what supposed to happen when others coins have been certified with the same grade I consider that a FMV correction  which was to be expected  the 2019 s  is the second silver eagle 🦅 with good Market Value  remember it’s just one once of silver  should be what 24 dollars  which will never be the case compare to other silver eagle the silver eagle 1995 W is the key unless something like this happens again  your  comparison doesn’t have nothing to do with the modern silver eagle 🦅 it’s make sense for regular circulating coins  thanks once again can will just talk about the silver eagle 🦅 not anything else 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/31/2024 at 2:34 AM, powermad5000 said:

I would say most of them have already been graded and are one of the three aforementioned grades.

The RATE of increase percentage-wise has clearly slowed.  The PCGS PF70DCAM population was 8 in 2013........23 in 2014.......381 in 2018....and 424 in 2021.

When that ASE sold for $86,000 in 2013...lots of coins came out of the woodwork !  

Edited March 31 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/31/2024 at 11:31 AM, bobbyboshay said:

Price drop from 86000 to 10000 if I’m not mistaken that’s what supposed to happen when others coins have been certified with the same grade I consider that a FMV correction 

It was also a bubble.  Most of the sales took place at about $30,000 or so, which even that was still bubble-like.  And we are talking very few sales even at $30K.

Once the supply hit (see my post above), the price really took a tumble.  Folks who thought maybe only a few dozen or even a few hundred coins would get the top grade and DCAM add-on suddenly recognized that (especially when you add in NGC) you could be talking THOUSANDS.

They'd still sell at a premium because of all the set registry collector demand....but not at multiple 5-figure pricing.

[VKurtB]

On 3/31/2024 at 11:46 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

When that ASE sold for $86,000 in 2013...lots of coins came out of the woodwork ! 

And many were being carried by termites. 

[powermad5000]

On 3/31/2024 at 10:31 AM, bobbyboshay said:

conversation is about silver eagle

I responded to your comment regarding rarity which applies to ALL coins.

And I mentioned your ASE's in the comment as well.

SMH

[GoldFinger1969]

Bobby, are you considering a purchase of some grade of 1995-W ASE ?  

[bobbyboshay]

Fellow didn’t mean to offend anyone I just like this as being a hot topic so  feel free to contribute to the topic now my question again is this a key 🔑 date or not  if it’s worth 6 figures or not money when it comes to rarity is not the issue  does this coin is the best  or in so many words the G O A T of  American Eagle who care of the price history  with so many of these coins certify is there a coin with these many certification still holds this much value when in most cases the prices don’t hold this value?  Don’t forget we are talking about silver eagle 🦅 also the termite still have there coins and hasn’t sold them on the market  because it’s still few on the market and the termite ain’t selling them for 24 dollars 

[Jason Abshier]

On 3/31/2024 at 2:23 PM, bobbyboshay said:

is this a key 🔑 date or not

Yes it’s key date to the series 

 

On 3/31/2024 at 2:23 PM, bobbyboshay said:

it’s worth 6 figures or not money

Yes it worth upper $10,000 to $18,000 (unconfirmed) or so going by heritage auction house prices in a PF70 grade ! So you got your answer 

PF69 is a lot less more like $1,600-$3,000 

[Jason Abshier]

On 3/31/2024 at 2:23 PM, bobbyboshay said:

when it comes to rarity

is it rarity ? Or should it be called a “rarity” ? My opinion on this take I collect classic coinage I don’t collect anything modern nor do I have desire to collect modern coinage and bullion such as ASE … it is by no means to me a rare coin on market …. Simple google search turn up tons on PF70’s 1995-W ASE …. What makes them worth so much is people who are pushing the demands as they build their sets …. Will that fan fire keep holding for next decade or so ? Hard to say , even in Classic coinage such as the Commemorative half dollars were once very very hot property guys were pouring tons and tons of money into them building their sets , then all sudden one days the market just crashed nobody cared pay high dollars for them anymore … they had a low mintage , it just didn’t matter anymore … same could happen to 1995-W ASE proof in near future 

 

take trip over to world coin section read topic “once hot - now they are fallen stars” …. I predict the 1995-W proof will be on that list as well the market comes in cycles and waves and CRASHES I should say 

Edited March 31 by Jason Abshier

[VKurtB]

On 3/31/2024 at 2:37 PM, Jason Abshier said:

is it rarity ? Or should it be called a “rarity” ? My opinion on this take I collect classic coinage I don’t collect anything modern nor do I have desire to collect modern coinage and bullion such as ASE … it is by no means to me a rare coin on market …. Simple google search turn up tons on PF70’s 1995-W ASE …. What makes them worth so much is people who are pushing the demands as they build their sets …. Will that fan fire keep holding for next decade or so ? Hard to say , even in Classic coinage such as the Commemorative half dollars were once very very hot property guys were pouring tons and tons of money into them building their sets , then all sudden one days the market just crashed nobody cared pay high dollars for them anymore … they had a low mintage , it just didn’t matter anymore … same could happen to 1995-W ASE proof in near future 

 

take trip over to world coin section read topic “once hot - now they are fallen stars” …. I predict the 1995-W proof will be on that list as well the market comes in cycles and waves and CRASHES I should say 

The counterpoint to that excellent reasoning is that the ASE remains BY FAR the most frequently encapsulated coin by NGC. And it’s not even close. Yeah, I don’t get it either, but it is what it is. SOMEBODY surely does love the 💩 out of collecting the things. 

Edited March 31 by VKurtB

[Jason Abshier]

@bobbyboshay Far far far from being a true “rarity” more rather a very very very common bullion coin … The population in PF70 is so high it’s ridiculous someone would pay $10,000 -$20,000 for 1995-W proof !!! 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/31/2024 at 3:28 PM, Jason Abshier said:

Yes it worth upper $10,000 to $18,000 (unconfirmed) or so going by heritage auction house prices in a PF70 grade ! So you got your answer 

PF69 is a lot less more like $1,600-$3,000 

A few weeks or months ago one got NO BIDs asking I think $13,000 or so on GC or HA.  So figure total cost of about $15K was too steep.  For a total cost of about $12,000 (give or take 10%), you can get the 70DCAM.  69-69's will run you $2K-$3K all-in.

Edited March 31 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/31/2024 at 2:23 PM, bobbyboshay said:

if it’s worth 6 figures or not money when it comes to rarity is not the issue  does this coin is the best  or in so many words the G O A T of  American Eagle who care of the price history  with so many of these coins certify is there a coin with these many certification still holds this much value when in most cases the prices don’t hold this value?  Don’t forget we are talking about silver eagle 🦅 also the termite still have there coins and hasn’t sold them on the market  because it’s still few on the market and the termite ain’t selling them for 24 dollars 

I think you answered your own question.  Quite frankly, if I was an ASE collector or if I just wanted a 1995-W as a conversation piece, I would almost certainly go for a 68 or 69.  

ESPECIALLY when you consider the risk of milk spots or something developing down the line.  One thing to have a $2,500 coin get cut in half price-wise....but to spend $12,000 and have it go down by 75-80% would be too much unless I had just won PowerBall. 

Edited March 31 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

I don't know how PCGS computes FMV for coins, but if it some algorithim based on previous prices, then thir FMV would be too HIGH if the price is in a long-term downtrend as the 1995-W ASE was for a decade or so.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/31/2024 at 3:44 PM, VKurtB said:

The counterpoint to that excellent reasoning is that the ASE remains BY FAR the most frequently encapsulated coin by NGC. And it’s not even close. Yeah, I don’t get it either, but it is what it is. SOMEBODY surely does love the 💩 out of collecting the things. 

It's affordable...the coin looks nice....it's 1 ounce of silver....makes a nice present.   

[Sandon]

@Jason Abshier--The figure of 42 1995-W proof ASEs you show graded by NGC in PF 70 UCAM are for coins encapsulated in Mike Castle signature holders only.  The NGC Census shows a total of 941 coins awarded that grade, out of 7,483 1995-W proof ASEs graded by NGC.  The total of 1,441 coins in the "70" grade by NGC and PCGS combined presumably contains some "crossovers" or other multiple submissions.  

[Jason Abshier]

@Sandon Thanks for pointing that out,  I was somewhat aware of that … I just took a quick screen shot of 42 (with the “special” signature labels) that were graded even then that didn’t make it a rarity.. not when ya got 42 at 70s not a single 69 or 68 ? 
 

talk about the abuse of 70 grade ? It was awarded way way too easy …

Edited March 31 by Jason Abshier

[VKurtB]

On 3/31/2024 at 5:24 PM, Jason Abshier said:

@Sandon Thanks for pointing that out,  I was somewhat aware of that … I just took a quick screen shot of 42 (with the “special” signature labels) that were graded even then that didn’t make it a rarity.. not when ya got 42 at 70s not a single 69 or 68 ? 

That’s because Castle only signed “70’s”.