1965 SMS 1 1

[Halbrook Family]

There is a Proof SMS set of 1965 Philly .In cello with envelope.  There is no uncirculated sets though for that year right? Also in the Red Book it looks like there is a 1965 SMS in the thin blue box but there isn't one like that? Just the 1966 & 1967 sms came like that? I hope I understand that right.  

[J P M]

This is what the original SMS coin sets looked like 65,66 and 67. No other proofs or mint sets were made those years. 

[RWB]

No proof coins or mint sets were made with 1965-67 dates.

1964 came in the usual proof set and a normal mint set.

[Henri Charriere]

On 2/23/2024 at 7:20 AM, J P M said:

This is what the original SMS coin sets looked like 65,66 and 67. No other proofs or mint sets were made those years. 

If what you say is true, and I do not doubt the authenticity of the accompanying photos, then SMS, as the term is used by a Bureau of a U.S. government agency, should be taken to mean those coins regardless of how minted, were produced in lieu of the Proof and Mint sets which should have been minted, but were not, for the Years '65, '66, and '67. Period.

I have been reading about this controversy for years, with no clear idea as to who is right, and who isn't.

My take then is, there is nothing truly "special" about these coins other than to provide continuity of the respective set lines. Whether the quality is sub-par or superior, is irrelevant.  If you wish to maintain the continuity of both series, SMS is the only alternative available. Until J P M stated that fact, I knew right away how this controversy began:  with collectors who compromised the integrity of the sets by taking a scissor to them. As far as I am concerned, SMS do exist -- the "proof" is above, and I thank J P M for effectively dispatching this half-century old debate with a single sentence and photographic evidence. I think we've beaten this dead horse long enough.

[Halbrook Family]

The reason I ask is that I am putting together a dansco book and I have a 1965 Half dollar spot  empty. The 1966 and 1967 I put the sms coins in there with 1966 1967 circulated issues. The sms coins look different to them of course. Now I just have to track down a mint circulated issue 1965.

I compromised the integrity of the sms sets. I bought for cheap sets that didn't have a box anymore. The 1965 sms sets, there don't seem very many of them where I shop at. They say there is 2.5 million of them though. 

I thought the question of sms coins existing is for the 1964 Half Dollar though.  

[Henri Charriere]

On 2/24/2024 at 9:50 PM, Halbrook Family said:

The reason I ask is that I am putting together a dansco book and I have a 1965 Half dollar spot  empty. 

I thought the question of sms coins existing is for the 1964 Half Dollar though.  

Your kind attention is directed to the posts preceding mine.

[Sandon]

On 2/24/2024 at 9:50 PM, Halbrook Family said:

The 1965 sms sets, there don't seem very many of them where I shop at. They say there is 2.5 million of them though. 

I thought the question of sms coins existing is for the 1964 Half Dollar though.  

   1965 Special Mint Sets are common enough.  Coin World gives a retail price range of $12 to $14 for sets in original packaging as shown by @J P M. You shouldn't have much trouble finding a BU example of the regular issue (about 65.9 million minted) either.

   The rare so-called 1964 "SMS" coins were so named that out of speculation that they were some sort of trials or prototypes for the 1965-67 Special Mint Set coins, but they are quite different looking, and there is no evidence that they had anything to do with the 1965-67 coins. See 1964 50C SP | Coin Explorer | NGC (ngccoin.com) ("Description & Analysis"). Ongoing research suggests that they were just ordinary strikings from new dies.

   

 

[Halbrook Family]

The SMS 1965 half is different then the circulated half then right? 

Edited February 26 by Halbrook Family

[Sandon]

On 2/25/2024 at 1:08 PM, Halbrook Family said:

The 1965 half is different then the circulated half then right? 

   I assume that what you meant to ask was, "Are the half dollars included in 1965 Special Mint Sets different from the 1965 half dollars made for circulation?" The answer to that question is "yes." See pp. 362-63 of the 2018 "Redbook" you indicated you have (pp. 370-71 of the 2023 edition). The pieces produced for circulation have a normal frosty luster when uncirculated, not the satiny or semi-prooflike finish of the coins produced for 1965 Special Mint Sets.

[EagleRJO]

On 2/24/2024 at 9:50 PM, Halbrook Family said:

The reason I ask is that I am putting together a dansco book and I have a 1965 Half dollar spot  empty. The 1966 and 1967 I put the sms coins in there with 1966 1967 circulated issues. The sms coins look different to them of course. Now I just have to track down a mint circulated issue 1965.

I compromised the integrity of the sms sets. I bought for cheap sets that didn't have a box anymore. The 1965 sms sets, there don't seem very many of them where I shop at. They say there is 2.5 million of them though. 

I thought the question of sms coins existing is for the 1964 Half Dollar though.  

I assume you mean that you filled the holes for "1965 SMS", "1966 SMS" and "1967 SMS" holes from the "special mint sets" like the ones JPM posted above, and that the "1966" and "1967" holes were filled with regular circulation issue coins not from any mint set.  That would be the way to complete that Dansco album.  Now you just need a regular circulation issue coin to fill the "1965" hole.

[Halbrook Family]

On 2/25/2024 at 10:35 AM, Sandon said:

   I assume that what you meant to ask was, "Are the half dollars included in 1965 Special Mint Sets different from the 1965 half dollars made for circulation?" The answer to that question is "yes." See pp. 362-63 of the 2018 "Redbook" you indicated you have (pp. 370-71 of the 2023 edition). The pieces produced for circulation have a normal frosty luster when uncirculated, not the satiny or semi-prooflike finish of the coins produced for 1965 Special Mint Sets.

I see. I just reread those pages. Thanks. So to have all the sets you need two 1965 SMS sets. A early one and a latter one? The 1965 half I have in my dansco book is one I learned how to put in the book right by ruining it. I got a scrape around the ear section from the plastic. 

Both of my 1966's have the initials though.

[Sandon]

On 2/25/2024 at 7:14 PM, Halbrook Family said:

So to have all the sets you need two 1965 SMS sets. A early one and a latter one?

   No. One is quite sufficient. I've never heard of anyone collecting these by their exact appearance.

[EagleRJO]

On 2/25/2024 at 7:14 PM, Halbrook Family said:

So to have all the sets you need two 1965 SMS sets

No, you only need one 1965 SMS set (or "special mint set") as JPM posted above for the "1965 SMS" hole.  The "1965" hole is a regular circulation issue coin that looks different than the SMS coins and does not come from a mint set.

[Halbrook Family]

On 2/25/2024 at 4:20 PM, Sandon said:

   No. One is quite sufficient. I've never heard of anyone collecting these by their exact appearance.

On page 362 of 2018 Red Book it says " early 1965 special mint sets are semi brilliant or satiny (distinctive but not equal in quality to proofs) the coins in later 1965 sets feature very brilliant fields (but again not reaching proof brilliance). 

 I wonder what the difference is. On my nickel set I had to have both sets of the 2005 - 2010 ones. 

[J P M]

On 2/25/2024 at 11:16 PM, Halbrook Family said:

On page 362 of 2018 Red Book it says " early 1965 special mint sets are semi brilliant or satiny (distinctive but not equal in quality to proofs) the coins in later 1965 sets feature very brilliant fields (but again not reaching proof brilliance). 

 I wonder what the difference is. On my nickel set I had to have both sets of the 2005 - 2010 ones. 

What that is saying is the mint messed up but would never admit that. To many people were not satisfied with SMS coins looking no different than your regular strike coins. The later 65 coins made in 66 looked a little better. 

[Halbrook Family]

On 2/26/2024 at 5:17 AM, J P M said:

What that is saying is the mint messed up but would never admit that. To many people were not satisfied with SMS coins looking no different than your regular strike coins. The later 65 coins made in 66 looked a little better. 

I wonder if you can tell them side by side.