Burk Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) Okay, I'm an admitted novice but this one looks interesting to me. Any thoughts appreciated. Edited February 8 by Burk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Just some die deterioration/strike doubling, not an error or any type of doubled die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenstang Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Very common Machine Doubling on that series. I read on another forum that a member did a survey and found out that over 60% of the quarters in that series had MD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burk Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 On 2/8/2024 at 4:28 PM, Coinbuf said: Just some die deterioration/strike doubling, not an error or any type of doubled die. I believe it, but I don't understand how it could only affect that one letter. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 What I see, highlighted in Frame 3, is an altered sub-machine with grip, which clearly did not exist during President Roosevelt's reign... but it would not stop me from advertising it as such on a foot-loose and fancy-free platform like Etsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burk Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 On 2/8/2024 at 4:50 PM, Henri Charriere said: What I see, highlighted in Frame 3, is an altered sub-machine with grip, which clearly did not exist during President Roosevelt's reign... but it would not stop me from advertising it as such on a foot-loose and fancy-free platform like Etsy. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burk Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 On 2/8/2024 at 4:59 PM, Burk said: LOL No, it's not going up for auction anywhere. Just curious, that's all. Henri Charriere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) On 2/8/2024 at 6:50 PM, Henri Charriere said: What I see, highlighted in Frame 3, is an altered sub-machine with grip, which clearly did not exist during President Roosevelt's reign I don't know what you have been smoking but I see a standard holstered pistol, likely an army Colt M1873 or the M1892 he carried as a Rough Rider, with a pistol barrel tip projecting below the holster bottom and his left hand resting on the pistol with the forward facing grip visible. Below the pistol are just the tassels of his riding pants. You may have been watching too many WWII movie re-runs recently. Edited February 10 by EagleRJO Henri Charriere and Mr.Bill347 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 The ammunition in his cartridge belt, will not fit the pistol in his holster. Also, the background "trees" resemble a "tree farm" planting and not a natural forest. Mr.Bill347 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Neophyte Numismatist Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 On 2/8/2024 at 6:41 PM, Greenstang said: ....I read on another forum that a member did a survey and found out that over 60% of the quarters in that series had MD. If you mean 60% of the designs can be found with MD, I understand. If you mean 60% of the total coins minted in the series, I do not understand how the forum member got to a statistically credible sample. powermad5000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 On 2/8/2024 at 5:47 PM, Burk said: but I don't understand how it could only affect that one letter. Any ideas? I don't think this coin has die deterioration as typically the effect of die deterioration doubling is quite mushy in appearance and usually affects more than just one or two letters. Mechanical doubling (non true hub doubling) can be due to very many factors such as vibration, an unstable die or die assemblies, an unstable press frame, bouncing dies or planchets, or ejection issues. Keep in mind on modern high speed presses that can strike upwards of 40,000 coins per hour at max capacity and speed, that many things can happen when the machine is not properly adjusted or comes out of adjustment during a run. It might not be possible to define exactly how just one letter was affected when it could be due to multiple factors (a loose die with added vibration of the press frame for example). This also could be one of the first strikes that show the start of something going wrong (such as the die just starting to become loose). What is to note, however, this is not true doubling and does not add any premium to the coin's value. Burk and Mr.Bill347 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 On 2/8/2024 at 8:21 PM, RWB said: The ammunition in his cartridge belt, will not fit the pistol in his holster. How so? He was known to have frequently visited the Little Missouri River Badlands depicted on the coin between 1883 and 1886 while in the army, so the pistol is likely the army issue M1873 SAA Colt 45. The standard army issue 45 Long Colt cartridges of the period are much longer than more modern pistol cartridges, and would stick out like a sore thumb on the belt similar to the attached, with one empty cartridge on the right. Have you been hanging out with QA lately, or maybe I am missing the inscriptions on the pistol and the cartridge cases depicted on the belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) On 2/8/2024 at 4:47 PM, Burk said: I believe it, but I don't understand how it could only affect that one letter. Any ideas? It doesn't only affect that one letter, it is just more pronounced on that letter. Look at the tops of the letter U, notice how there is a shallower impression that stretches toward the rim, also caused by die deterioration. The fact that the letter U and the letter T show issues on the tops of the U and under the T is a clear red flag that this cannot be true hub doubling as true hub doubling will only be rotated one direction. Edited February 9 by Coinbuf EagleRJO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 On 2/9/2024 at 12:38 PM, EagleRJO said: How so? He was known to have frequently visited the Little Missouri River Badlands depicted on the coin between 1883 and 1886 while in the army, so the pistol is likely the army issue M1873 SAA Colt 45. The standard army issue 45 Long Colt cartridges of the period are much longer than more modern pistol cartridges, and would stick out like a sore thumb on the belt similar to the attached, with one empty cartridge on the right. Have you been hanging out with QA lately, or maybe I am missing the inscriptions on the pistol and the cartridge cases depicted on the belt. The 45 long was also for the rifle, so you did not have to carry different rounds of cartridges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 On 2/9/2024 at 12:38 PM, EagleRJO said: How so? He was known to have frequently visited the Little Missouri River Badlands depicted on the coin between 1883 and 1886 while in the army, so the pistol is likely the army issue M1873 SAA Colt 45. The standard army issue 45 Long Colt cartridges of the period are much longer than more modern pistol cartridges, and would stick out like a sore thumb on the belt similar to the attached, with one empty cartridge on the right. Have you been hanging out with QA lately, or maybe I am missing the inscriptions on the pistol and the cartridge cases depicted on the belt. Well, my background in historic pistols, etc. is about as effective as a 22-short at 1 mile.... I was going by the coin's illustration and the scale where the cartridges looked more like rifle ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) On 2/9/2024 at 2:59 PM, J P M said: The 45 long was also for the rifle, so you did not have to carry different rounds of cartridges. Interesting, as that probably would have been a Winchester rifle chambered for the 45 Long Colt which I didn't know he used. But it seems like whoever came up with that quarter design did some research into the correct pistols and ammunition for that time, and I'm curious if what is depicted on the quarter is from a photograph as it appears pretty accurate and period correct like the 45 Colt pistol and belt shown above. On 2/9/2024 at 5:47 PM, RWB said: Well, my background in historic pistols, etc. is about as effective as a 22-short at 1 mile.... I know just enough to be dangerous, but my interest is more related to Teddy as a person including his adventures in the ND Badlands and subsequent park dedication as depicted on the 2016 quarter. The National Park Service has an old but pretty comprehensive publication about that (for only a quarter at that time ) ... https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/thro/tr_badlands.pdf Edited February 11 by EagleRJO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Thanks for link. Saved the booklet for later reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
