Smb740 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 So this nickel has a very strong tint to it anybody know anything about this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) 1958 Jefferson nickels were made of 75% copper and 25% nickel. Some of these coins tone with a goldish look to them depending on the various environmental conditions the coin was previously stored in. Also this coin may be a "Black Beauty". A Black Beauty is a 1958 Jefferson Nickel with an improper alloy mix or improperly annealed planchet which causes the 1958 Nickel to turn darker sometimes brownish gold sometimes black steel grey. This coin unlike others you have posted is in very good condition. The surfaces are clean and the coin has a good strong strike. The reverse steps are excellent with no hits or marks in the steps. To assign a photo grade the coin would most likely grade MS63-64. Nice nickel to put in your collection. Inquire online about the 1958 Jefferson "Black Beauty" Nickel. I own a 1959 Black Beauty see below. Edited December 21, 2023 by Mike Meenderink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 The strike suggests to me that the coin is a proof striking. Does it have a shiny surface at other lighting angles? The "tint" is likely just toning. Mike Meenderink 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 On 12/20/2023 at 7:00 PM, Sandon said: The strike suggests to me that the coin is a proof striking. Does it have a shiny surface at other lighting angles? The "tint" is likely just toning. Not quite a proof strike but a very strong early-stage new die strike. The coin is from an early start run probably one of the first 10000 coins minted. I like it. The more I look at his coin and study mine the surfaces match my Black Beauty perfectly right down to the striations, texture and overall color. It's a Black Beauty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smb740 Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 Not really it seems kinda dull? and that’s funny u say that because I own a 59 that has this same effect going on ?? They are both nice 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 That 1959 is probably a Black Beauty as well. The coloring is a bit different, but the surface shows the same striations on the reverse and the same toning pattern as the 58 on the obverse. The 1958 is a better coin for the example of a Black Beauty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smb740 Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 Both worth grading of course ? I also have a 1938 nickel that’s exactly the same tones and look is it one also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 On 12/20/2023 at 10:26 PM, Smb740 said: Both worth grading of course ? I also have a 1938 nickel that’s exactly the same tones and look is it one also? Some earlier date nickels had the dark discoloration from having the planchet improperly annealed, but I understand it was specifically the deeper dark discoloration on the 1958/1959 nickels that earned the nickname "Black Beauly". it's hard to tell if the coin in the original post is in fact a black beauty since there appears to be a lot of reflection from the lighting. And you are probably better off buying a coin already slabbed and labeled with that error than submitting a coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smb740 Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 I can try to get pictures in a duller light in just a few sorry about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 ANACS is the only grading service that recognizes or labels the Black Beauty designation. NGC and PCGS do not consider Black Beauty a labelable title since they do not recognize so called nick names for coins. NGC and PCGS will however if appropriate designate the coin as an Improper Alloy Mix which is basically the same thing as saying Black Beauty on a 58 or 59 Jefferson Nickel. The 58 is sufficient to send for grading although it will not bring a large premium upon sale and the grading cost may exceed the value of the coin unless the coin grades very high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 Try to get focused cropped photos of both sides with just 75W/100W background lighting at an angle, and also a photo of the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 On 12/20/2023 at 7:26 PM, Smb740 said: Both worth grading of course ? I also have a 1938 nickel that’s exactly the same tones and look is it one also? 1958 and 1959 are the only years known to have these improper alloy mix nickels. Any other nickel you have like the 1938 is most likely just a toned or stained coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) On 12/20/2023 at 11:16 PM, Mike Meenderink said: NGC and PCGS will however if appropriate designate the coin as an Improper Alloy Mix I believe that both NGC and PCGS currently use "Improppery Annealed Planchet" for those black beauty nickels. I think you are right that ANACS is the only TPG to use "Black Beauty" on the label. I'm not sure what ANACS labels the error as lately since they seem to flip-flop between "Impropper Alloy Mix" and "Impropperly Annealed Planchet" to go along with "Black Beauty". Edited December 21, 2023 by EagleRJO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 On 12/20/2023 at 7:26 PM, Smb740 said: Both worth grading of course ? I also have a 1938 nickel that’s exactly the same tones and look is it one also? I doubt it, if the grading has a financial motive. I'd like to see evidence that someone has actually paid $60 or so for an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 On 12/20/2023 at 8:27 PM, EagleRJO said: I believe that both NGC and PCGS currently use "Improppery Annealed Planchet" for those black beauty nickels. I think you are right that ANACS is the only TPG to use "Black Beauty" on the label. I'm not sure what ANACS labels the error as lately since they seem to flip-flop between "Impropper Alloy Mix" and "Impropperly Annealed Planchet" to go along with "Black Beauty". They are all over the place I forget..NGC says Improperly annealed PCGS says Improper alloy mix...whatever.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 On 12/20/2023 at 11:24 PM, Mike Meenderink said: 1958 and 1959 are the only years known to have these improper alloy mix nickels There are other years with the "Impropperly Annealed Planchet" error and dark discoloration including the attached 1964-D, and I have also seen them from the late 1930's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smb740 Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 Hopefully these help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 On 12/20/2023 at 8:28 PM, JKK said: I doubt it, if the grading has a financial motive. I'd like to see evidence that someone has actually paid $60 or so for an example. I paid $65.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) On 12/20/2023 at 11:34 PM, Mike Meenderink said: They are all over the place I forget..NGC says Improperly annealed PCGS says Improper alloy mix...whatever.. Both NGC and PCG$ currently label them as "Impropperly Annealed Planchet", and have for a while [PCG$ changed a few times a long time ago]. You might be thinking of ANACS which keeps flip-flopping even more recently. Edited December 21, 2023 by EagleRJO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 1959 Jefferson Nickel Improperly Annealed Black Beauty HOW The distinctive and unique look of a black beauty comes from an improperly handled annealing process. Annealing is the process of heating up the planchet for it to be ready to be struck. The planchets are heated in a large furnace warmed by gas heaters to "relax" the metal alloy for the striking process. They are then rinsed to remove tarnish, which gives the nickel planchets the familiar shiny "BU" (Brilliant Uncirculated) finish. HISTORY At the Philadelphia Mint in 1959, a full batch of nickel planchets were left in the furnace too long during the annealing process. As a result the unique black appearance was created. In 1959 Baltimore used more nickels than any other city. Baltimore city received seven 15-ton shipments of nickels a year. There were 670 bags of nickels in each tractor-trailer load that backed up to the rear of the Federal Reserve Bank in Baltimore. How To Tell Them Note that color of these is not actually black but more of a dark gray. The color must run all the way through the coin/planchet look at edges Check any slight gouges, or nicks to make sure its not just another environmental damaged coin. They should also have luster. (Cited from: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/1959-jefferson-nickel-improperly-annealed-black-beauty.250868/) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 On 12/20/2023 at 8:40 PM, EagleRJO said: Both NGC and PCGS currently labem them as "Impropperly Annealed Planchet", and have for a while. You might be thinking of ANACS which keeps flip-flopping even more recently. Sintered Planchet, improperly annealed planchet, Improper alloy mix..it goes on and on and on and on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 On 12/20/2023 at 8:38 PM, Smb740 said: Hopefully these help! The edge shows the color goes all the way through the coin so that confirms it is a Black Beauty. Nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smb740 Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 I think mine is a very nice example after looking at others ? Thanks everyone good to know ! 😃 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 On 12/20/2023 at 11:41 PM, Mike Meenderink said: Sintered Planchet, improperly annealed planchet, Improper alloy mix..it goes on and on and on and on No, that is from a long time ago when the errors were first being discovered and the cause was uncertain. ANACS is the only one still flip-flopping recently between "Impropper Alloy Mix" and "Impropperly Annealed Planchet", even more recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 On 12/20/2023 at 8:36 PM, EagleRJO said: There are other years with the "Impropperly Annealed Planchet" error and dark discoloration including the attached 1964-D, and I have also seen them from the late 1930's. I was only referring to the thousands of known released over annealed coins in 1958 59 that are known to be called Black Beauty. Of course many coin series have these errors as well but they are not a specific collector item coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smb740 Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 Here is the 59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 I see a hit on the steps of the 58 at the lower right that I think would preclude it from getting an FS designation and I think the steps are too worn on the 59 to get the FS designation either. While these are in good condition overall I do not think they would be candidates for grading and encapsulation, but if you wanted to see if they were to get the designation being discussed here, I think ANACS would be a cheaper option for these. Mike Meenderink 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 I would put these in a box labeled and then move on. $120 + for grading is a big chance to take. the 59 looks like surface contamination toning to me. the 58 is questionable. Even Mikes coin has a grayer look to it. EagleRJO and Mike Meenderink 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverEnoughCoins09 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 What is going on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) On 12/21/2023 at 11:44 AM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said: What is going on here? Well I saw that too and looked for a clash but... there is none. That makes me think it appears to be a defective planchet with some type of metallurgy issue in that area. But who knows. Edited December 21, 2023 by Mike Meenderink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
