Silver 1971 D Eisenhower Dollar (Silver ???) 1 1

[MikeJanis]

I came across a 1971-D Eisenhower Dollar coin.  It's not supposed to be silver, but it clearly looks to be silver.  It is not like any other common Ike I have ever seen.  Is it a rare mistake?  It is not plated; I have ruled that out.  Any help would be appreciated.

I have included several pics.  
The last pic is it compared to a group of 1964 Kennedy halves.  

[Mike Meenderink]

redacted 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[MikeJanis]

On 12/11/2023 at 7:13 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

The 1971 Eisenhower Dollar is made of 40% silver and 60 % silver. Yes congratulations you have a 40% silver coin. 

I have not seen in any book that a 71-D is silver...  It states just the S mints are silver.   I'm confused.

[Mike Meenderink]

On 12/11/2023 at 4:20 PM, MikeJanis said:

I have not seen in any book that a 71-D is silver...  It states just the S mints are silver.   I'm confused.

was looking at it as an impaired proof sorry ignore

 

[Mike Meenderink]

It does look funny on edge, but it is most likely just a worn copper nickel dollar

[Mike Meenderink]

If you know of a coin shop or pawn shop they may be able to test it for you. You will know for sure.

[MikeJanis]

On 12/11/2023 at 7:22 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

It does look funny on edge, but it is most likely just a worn copper nickel dollar

It's not really worn at all.  It's in VG condition.  The pics do not do it justice.

 

[Mike Meenderink]

On 12/11/2023 at 4:26 PM, MikeJanis said:

It's not really worn at all.  It's in VG condition.  The pics do not do it justice.

Believe me when I tell you that the coin is well circulated and has a few scratches as well. The coin is not mint state and would likely grade AU details scratched if sent in. If you think it is silver then you can find out easily at any coin or pawn shop. If you find out it is silver get a written/printed statement verification of the test and come back here to show us. Goodluck

 

On 12/11/2023 at 4:26 PM, MikeJanis said:

 

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[VKurtB]

It’s a poorly made Chinese fake. 

[Mike Meenderink]

On 12/11/2023 at 4:20 PM, MikeJanis said:

The 1971 Eisenhower Dollar is made of 40% silver and 60 % silver. Yes congratulations you have a 40% silver coin. 

This is classic tired Mike behavior notice there is 40% silver and 60% silver equaling  40% silver on a D coin not even a Proof ...Hmmmmm @Sandon@EagleRJO

Edited December 12, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[Mike Meenderink]

On 12/11/2023 at 4:37 PM, VKurtB said:

It’s a poorly made Chinese fake. 

Anything is possible from China...but why?

[Mike Meenderink]

Now that I've looked closer the coin has been cleaned as well as having scratches. Thats why the edge looks washed out. That whitish powdery stuff or look on edge is left over cleaning compound of some kind. This coin is a problem coin.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[MikeJanis]

On 12/11/2023 at 7:47 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

Now that I've looked closer the coin has been cleaned as well as having scratches. Thats why the edge looks washed out. That whitish powdery stuff or look on edge is left over cleaning compound of some kind. This coin is a problem coin.

The coin only went into my Sonic cleaner when I was cleaning a bagfull I got from the bank.  There is no residue on it.  
If you look closely at the pics with it next to the 64 Kennedy's, you can see the color is consistent throughout the entire coin.  

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by MikeJanis

[Mike Meenderink]

On 12/11/2023 at 4:50 PM, MikeJanis said:

The coin only went into my Sonic cleaner when I was cleaning a bagfull I got from the bank.  There is no residue on it.  

You ruined it by doing that. Sorry. Do not sonic clean coins that's why the color is weird and the surface is weird. The coin is worth 1 dollar.

[EagleRJO]

So if I am understanding this correctly you have a 1971-D Ike Dollar which should be a Cu-Ni composition, but you think it was struck on a 40% silver clad planchet intended to be produced at the San Francisco mint that would have an "S" mintmark based on the edge appearance (see attached).

While your coin does not seem to have the appearance of a Cu-Ni clad coin looking at the edge, we have had similar dollar and half dollar coins with that edge appearance which turned out to be Cu-Ni clad.  The weight of 22.5g for your coin would seem to verify its a normal Cu-Ni clad dollar with a specified weight of 22.58g, while the 40% silver dollar has a specified weight of 24.59g with a tolerance of 0,91g, so that is NOT a match with an off-metal planchet error.

However if your not convinced, you could do a Specific Gravity (SG) test but that is really an advanced topic, so perhaps you could take it to a local coin shop that has an XRF tester to check the composition and give it a good look with the coin in-hand to see if it might be a fake or not.

Edited December 12, 2023 by EagleRJO

[MikeJanis]

On 12/11/2023 at 7:52 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

You ruined it by doing that. Sorry. Do not sonic clean coins that's why the color is weird and the surface is weird. The coin is worth 1 dollar.

Sonic cleaning in distilled water does not have any negative effect on common coins.  Silver or not as it just vibrates the debris off of the coin.  The other Ik's it is compared to in the pics came out of the same sonically cleaned batch.

[Mike Meenderink]

OK I'm out...goodluck

[EagleRJO]

On 12/11/2023 at 7:56 PM, MikeJanis said:

Sonic cleaning in distilled water does not have any negative effect on common coins.  Silver or not as it just vibrates the debris off of the coin.  The other Ik's it is compared to in the pics came out of the same sonically cleaned batch.

Don't clean any coins, no matter how harmless it may seem.  The most you should be doing is giving coins an acetone bath.

[J P M]

I think they did make a 40% silver coin in 1971 but it would weigh 24.59 not 22.50 that is a clad weight. 

[VKurtB]

On 12/11/2023 at 6:44 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

Anything is possible from China...but why?

You can’t go down that rathole. Chinese don’t have brains like ours. 

[Sandon]

   Welcome to the NGC chat board.   

   Your 1971-D Eisenhower dollar is almost certainly not silver.  Although a few 1974-D and 1977-D Eisenhower dollars are known to exist on 40% silver (silver clad) planchets intended for the production of pieces for collectors' issues struck at San Francisco, to my knowledge no such 1971-D pieces are known to exist, and it is unlikely that it would take over 50 years before any would be discovered.  

  Your coin appears to have been abrasively "cleaned", as indicated by its hairline scratches, which could have slightly altered its color, which isn't a good indicator of the composition of a coin in any case. If you're claiming that the coin's edge is solid white instead of mostly copper colored or brown, which isn't clear from your post, it is likely because the coin has been plated or coated with some foreign substance. How did you determine that the coin wasn't plated or otherwise have an altered surface?   As suggested, the coin could be counterfeit, as large numbers of counterfeit coins of even common issues such as Eisenhower dollars have been made in Mainland China since about 2005. 

   You show the coin's weight as 22.5 grams, which is much closer to the official weight of a copper-nickel clad piece (22.68 grams) than it is to a silver clad collector's issue Eisenhower dollar such as the 1971-S (24.592 grams).  (The official weight of an 1840-1935 era or 1984-2019 commemorative .900 fine silver dollar is a still heavier 26.73 grams.) The silver clad issue has a legal tolerance of plus or minus 0.984 grams, so the minimum legal weight for a coin struck on a silver clad planchet would be 23.608 grams. I assume that your scale is accurate; many inexpensive digital scales aren't, and the better ones measure out to at least hundredths rather than tenths of a gram. 

   I suggest that you have this coin weighed on a professional quality scale, and if it still doesn't weigh at least 23.608 grams, you should assume that it is either an altered normal copper-nickel clad piece or a counterfeit. If its weight is within the legal range for a silver clad Eisenhower dollar, it might be worthwhile to have a professional test it on an XRF (X-ray fluorescence spectroscopy) machine or test its specific gravity, which should be 9.53 if it is silver clad and 8.92 if it is copper nickel clad. If the tests indicate that it could be a silver clad piece, it could then be worth the further expense of submitting it to a third-party coin authentication and grading service such as NGC or PCGS. If you are unfamiliar with the submission process, you should have a reputable dealer assist you.  See Find Coin Shops & Dealers | Coin Dealer Locator | NGC (ngccoin.com).

    If we seem skeptical, it is because many others have posted claims of having found extremely rare or not known to exist off-metal planchet errors (for example, 1943 bronze cents, 1971-D silver clad Kennedy half dollars, 1977 silver clad Eisenhower dollars). All of these claims were disproven or were never verified. Who knows? Perhaps you will be the first one who actually had such a coin.
   

[MikeJanis]

On 12/11/2023 at 8:07 PM, J P M said:

I think they did make a 40% silver coin in 1971 but it would weigh 24.59 not 22.50 that is a clad weight. 

Clad weight is 22.68 grams. This coin doesn’t even weight that.  Which is even more confusing.   It’s almost as if it is mostly silver with a small copper core. But that’s just a guess.  But either way, there should be no silver on a 71 d 

[MikeJanis]

On 12/11/2023 at 8:45 PM, Sandon said:

   Welcome to the NGC chat board.   

   Your 1971-D Eisenhower dollar is almost certainly not silver.  Although a few 1974-D and 1977-D Eisenhower dollars are known to exist on 40% silver (silver clad) planchets intended for the production of pieces for collectors' issues struck at San Francisco, to my knowledge no such 1971-D pieces are known to exist, and it is unlikely that it would take over 50 years before any would be discovered.  

  Your coin appears to have been abrasively "cleaned", as indicated by its hairline scratches, which could have slightly altered its color, which isn't a good indicator of the composition of a coin in any case. If you're claiming that the coin's edge is solid white instead of mostly copper colored or brown, which isn't clear from your post, it is likely because the coin has been plated or coated with some foreign substance. How did you determine that the coin wasn't plated or otherwise have an altered surface?   As suggested, the coin could be counterfeit, as large numbers of counterfeit coins of even common issues such as Eisenhower dollars have been made in Mainland China since about 2005. 

   You show the coin's weight as 22.5 grams, which is much closer to the official weight of a copper-nickel clad piece (22.68 grams) than it is to a silver clad collector's issue Eisenhower dollar such as the 1971-S (24.592 grams).  (The official weight of an 1840-1935 era or 1984-2019 commemorative .900 fine silver dollar is a still heavier 26.73 grams.) The silver clad issue has a legal tolerance of plus or minus 0.984 grams, so the minimum legal weight for a coin struck on a silver clad planchet would be 23.608 grams. I assume that your scale is accurate; many inexpensive digital scales aren't, and the better ones measure out to at least hundredths rather than tenths of a gram. 

   I suggest that you have this coin weighed on a professional quality scale, and if it still doesn't weigh at least 23.608 grams, you should assume that it is either an altered normal copper-nickel clad piece or a counterfeit. If its weight is within the legal range for a silver clad Eisenhower dollar, it might be worthwhile to have a professional test it on an XRF (X-ray fluorescence spectroscopy) machine or test its specific gravity, which should be 9.53 if it is silver clad and 8.92 if it is copper nickel clad. If the tests indicate that it could be a silver clad piece, it could then be worth the further expense of submitting it to a third-party coin authentication and grading service such as NGC or PCGS. If you are unfamiliar with the submission process, you should have a reputable dealer assist you.  See Find Coin Shops & Dealers | Coin Dealer Locator | NGC (ngccoin.com).

    If we seem skeptical, it is because many others have posted claims of having found extremely rare or not known to exist off-metal planchet errors (for example, 1943 bronze cents, 1971-D silver clad Kennedy half dollars, 1977 silver clad Eisenhower dollars). All of these claims were disproven or were never verified. Who knows? Perhaps you will be the first one who actually had such a coin.
   

Thank you for that very thorough response.  
As far as ruling out plated.  I see a ton of those cheap looking chrome or gold-plated Ike's and this coin under a loop looks nothing like the plating process's I have seen on those.  However, this just could be a plating process I have never seen, maybe done by vapor, IDK?

Regarding Scratches.  yes, there are scratches, but they are not consistent throughout the entire coin.  The rims are high and tight, the lettering is crisp.  

I'm just trying to rule out everything I can, and/or find out how something like this was made. Heck, maybe it is that rare find but I doubt it. 

I will be taking it to a local coin store to find out more about it.  I'll keep y'all updated. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by MikeJanis

[Sandon]

On 12/11/2023 at 8:50 PM, MikeJanis said:

Clad weight is 22.68 grams. This coin doesn’t even weight that.  Which is even more confusing.   It’s almost as if it is mostly silver with a small copper core. But that’s just a guess.  But either way, there should be no silver on a 71 d 

   The copper nickel Eisenhower dollars had a weight tolerance of 0.907 gram, so a genuine uncirculated piece could weigh anywhere from 21.773 to 23.587 grams. The weight you got of 22.5 grams is quite close to the official weight of a normal coin. Most metals have a whitish color, so the color isn't a reasonable basis even for a guess that it contains any silver whatsoever. 

   

[Just Bob]

I don't think your coin is genuine.

[powermad5000]

In your sideways pic, I tilted my computer to be able to look at the coins properly oriented. I did the eyeball bounce back and forth, and my eye detects that the lettering in LIBERTY looks "off" to me. The shapes, positions and serifs just don't look the same as compared to the two genuine pieces next to it.

I also took a pic of your pic and rotated it properly and cropped it to be able to zoom in on it a little bit and when comparing again, the lettering of LIBERTY still looks off from the genuine examples, especially in the letters BER. Also, in the zoomed pic on my phone, looking at the date numerals, the 9 and the 7 just do not look right to me.

I am voting in the camp that the coin is a counterfeit.

[EagleRJO]

See my comments above concerning the weight of 22.5g not being within range for a 40% silver planchet, so it can't be an off-metal planchet error.  There have been similar claims of a transitional planchet error just based on the edge appearance which didn't pan out