1994 Philadelphia LC various raised lines going through reverse of coin 1 1

[Rykel]

Came across this coin and I have found others with a straight raised line mint error. I have never seen a coin with so many and so long. I also know the 94 Lincoln cent has an error in the memorial on reverse in the last column. Don't know if this could be something as rare as that coin? Need expert advice and opinions.

[J P M]

It looks like plating lines.

[Coinbuf]

Linear plating bubbles/lines.  Super common no added value.

[Sandon]

    I agree that these are plating blisters. See https://www.error-ref.com/?s=plating+blister.

[Rykel]

I have pushed down on them with a toothpick even using the nail on my thumb but the lines are completely solid protruding from the coin so I do not think it is blistering at all.

 

[dprince1138]

This may be something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wavy_steps_and_trails

On a 1994 penny.

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by dprince1138

[Sandon]

   Unlike error-ref.com, Wikipedia is not a reliable source for numismatic information, especially where the editor has noted that the article has "multiple issues", including that it "does not cite any sources" and that "the verifiability of the claims made in this article is disputed".

   Plating blisters being hollow doesn't mean that you can push them in with a toothpick!  They are extremely common, especially on earlier copper-plated zinc cents. If you like them, you are free to collect them. I'm sure you'll find many of them.

[Mike Meenderink]

On 12/3/2023 at 9:17 PM, Sandon said:

   Unlike error-ref.com, Wikipedia is not a reliable source for numismatic information, especially where the editor has noted that the article has "multiple issues", including that it "does not cite any sources" and that "the verifiability of the claims made in this article is disputed".

   Plating blisters being hollow doesn't mean that you can push them in with a toothpick!  They are extremely common, especially on earlier copper-plated zinc cents. If you like them, you are free to collect them. I'm sure you'll find many of them.

I always pop my plating blisters with a needle anyone that does different is just crazy.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[EagleRJO]

If they are raised solid lines as indicated by the op then they can not be (linear) plating blisters since they have a different appearance, are only in the fields, do not continue across design elements, and are not hollow as discussed at the following Error-Ref link ...

https://www.error-ref.com/blisteredplating/

They also don't appear to be "die trail lines" with associated deterioration since they are not mostly short tapered raised lines emanating from design elements as discussed at the following Error-Ref link and website referenced therein ...

https://www.error-ref.com/die-deterioration-promoted-by-trails/

https://www.traildies.com/

Since they are regularly spaced longer raised lines that continue across and are broken up by multiple design elements, instead of just emanating from particular ones, I think they are die scrapes caused by feeder fingers scratching the die as discussed at the following Error-Ref link ...

https://www.error-ref.com/die-scrapes/

Edited December 6, 2023 by EagleRJO

[l.cutler]

I agree with EagleRJO, look like die scrapes to me.

[J P M]

Ya Eagle, I will go along with die scrapes. 

[Rykel]

On 12/3/2023 at 11:22 PM, dprince1138 said:

This may be something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wavy_steps_and_trails

On a 1994 penny.

 

Thank you I never heard of traildies. I just looked it up. I have found coins with blistering and linear blisters and I know these are not blisters.

[Rykel]

On 12/4/2023 at 4:01 AM, EagleRJO said:

they are die scrapes caused by feeder fingers scratching the die as discussed at the following Error-Ref link

Thank you very much. I have learned about two new errors trail dies and feed her finger scratching. I appreciate helping me out now I know where to look to find out exactly what these are. 

 

[EagleRJO]

On 12/4/2023 at 9:31 AM, Rykel said:

I have learned about two new errors trail dies and feed her finger scratching

Please disregard any posts by dprince as they have an established history of providing misinformation and linking unreliable sources.  That aside die trails are an interesting type of error, but I haven't seen any coins with that hubbing error.  And that coin does have some pretty significant die scrapes.

[Rykel]

On 12/4/2023 at 9:52 AM, EagleRJO said:

Please disregard any posts by dprince as they have an established history of providing misinformation and linking unreliable sources.

Thank you for the advice I appreciate it.

I have been looking at trail errors and finger feeder die errors. I have only found an image of a coin with various straight lines running through it looks very similar to the same error on the coin I found and it was the finger feed or die error. I'm still trying to find more information about the hubbing process exactly how it happens I'm still relatively new to collecting I've only been doing this about 5 months now.

Are two images I found that are similar to the error on my coin.

[EagleRJO]

On 12/4/2023 at 11:26 AM, Rykel said:

I have been looking at trail errors and finger feeder die errors. I have only found an image of a coin with various straight lines running through it looks very similar to the same error on the coin I found and it was the finger feed or die error.

Those do look like "feeder finger" die scrapes also, similar to what is on your coin.  That is a significant die scrape error on your coin, although likely not worth any premium.  So I would put it in a labeled flip and toss it in a miscellaneous errors box.

On 12/4/2023 at 11:26 AM, Rykel said:

I'm still trying to find more information about the hubbing process exactly how it happens I'm still relatively new to collecting I've only been doing this about 5 months now.

About the hubbing process see the following links from the US mint and a discussion about that on Wexler's site.  I will also provide a link to a topic on basic coin info, including a good one about "resources for newer collectors" by Sandon.

https://www.usmint.gov/learn/production-process/die-making

https://doubleddie.com/58201.html

https://boards.ngccoin.com/topic/430263-basic-resources-glossary/

[Rykel]

On 12/4/2023 at 11:53 AM, EagleRJO said:

So I would put it in a labeled flip and toss it in a miscellaneous errors box.

Hey thank you for all the advice and I'm definitely going to check out those sites you provided.

Yeah I'm going to hang on to it I have some other error coins so I'll stash it with those you never know what might happen in the future this type of error could have some value to it.

[Coinbuf]

On 12/4/2023 at 2:01 AM, EagleRJO said:

If they are raised solid lines as indicated by the op I don't think those are linear plating blisters since they have a different appearance, do not continue across design elements, and are not hollow as discussed at the following Error-Ref link ...

https://www.error-ref.com/blisteredplating/

They also don't appear to be "die trail lines" with associated deterioration since they are not mostly short tapered raised lines emanating from design elements as discussed at the following Error-Ref link and website referenced therein ...

https://www.error-ref.com/die-deterioration-promoted-by-trails/

https://www.traildies.com/

Since they are regularly spaced longer raised lines that continue across and are broken up by multiple design elements, instead of just emanating from particular ones, I think they are die scrapes caused by feeder fingers scratching the die as discussed at the following Error-Ref link ...

https://www.error-ref.com/die-scrapes/

They could indeed be some type of die scrapes, however, if I am not mistaken, the mint was using Schuler horizontal presses at the time this cent was struck.   If memory serves, the mint began to convert to the horizontal press in the mid 1980's.   That type of press does not have feeder fingers, it uses a rotary dial (similar to an old dial telephone for anyone that is old enough to remember one).   So unless I have my dates off and this was not struck on a Schuler press, I do not think this could be called feeder finger damage.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Coinbuf

[EagleRJO]

On 12/4/2023 at 4:07 PM, Coinbuf said:

... if I am not mistaken, the mint was using Schuler horizontal presses at the time this cent was struck.   That type of press does not have feeder fingers,

Good point, and since that's a possibility it might be better to just refer to what is on the op's coin as "feeding scrapes".

[Coinbuf]

On 12/4/2023 at 2:36 PM, EagleRJO said:

Good point, and since that's a possibility it might be better to just refer to what is on the op's coin as "feeding scrapes".

I'm not sure that would be a correct term as we don't know if these are in fact from a die that became damaged, a defective planchet, plating bubbles or just what actually caused this particular effect.   If these marks were caused by the rotary dial of the Schuler press I would expect to see curved lines rather than straight lines as any contact to the dies would be as the dial turns to move the next planchet into place between the hammer and anvil dies and discard the previously struck coin into the exit tube.

I don't think we are going to be able to come up with a definitive or conclusive answer from just the photos, an in hand examination by an error coin expert is likely needed.

[EagleRJO]

On 12/4/2023 at 4:58 PM, Coinbuf said:

 If these marks were caused by the rotary dial of the Schuler press I would expect to see curved lines rather than straight lines

Agreed, but with such a small die for the cent and a large rotary feeder the line would likely only be slightly curved.  Looking at rotated enlargements of the longer lines on the first pic of the coin there does in fact appear to be a curve in the lines, particularly apparent with the longer line that goes through the "S" in "Pluribus".  So I am still going with die scrapes or scratches caused by the feeder.

[Rykel]

On 12/4/2023 at 4:58 PM, Coinbuf said:

I don't think we are going to be able to come up with a definitive or conclusive answer from just the photos, an in hand examination by an error coin expert is likely needed

Awesome information I have so much to learn I had no idea about different types of presses used in different years. I really do want to know how this error was caused exactly and what it is. I do believe it is worth it to send out to be looked at by an expert. Would you be able to recommend where I should send it to?

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 12/4/2023 at 9:49 PM, Rykel said:

Awesome information I have so much to learn I had no idea about different types of presses used in different years. I really do want to know how this error was caused exactly and what it is. I do believe it is worth it to send out to be looked at by an expert. Would you be able to recommend where I should send it to?

CONECA might take a look at it. I think you have to post some pictures on the forum first before they'll agree to examining the coin. 

https://conecaonline.org/examination-services/

[J P M]

On 12/5/2023 at 6:06 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

CONECA might take a look at it. I think you have to post some pictures on the forum first before they'll agree to examining the coin. 

https://conecaonline.org/examination-services/

No matter Rykel it will not make it worth more, both of the possibility's we discussed do not increase the value of the coin. If you send it in, you will get the same answer you got here only that they will pick one or the other because they are going to charge you for that answer.

Edited December 6, 2023 by J P M

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 12/5/2023 at 6:18 AM, J P M said:

No mater Rykel it will not make it worth more, both of the possibility's we discussed do not increase the value of the coin. If you send it in, you will get the same answer you got here only that they will pick one or the other because they are going to charge you for that answer.

I think they charge $10 if they agree to look at it? This coin is worth no where near that but the OP may get a more definitive answer if they decide to look into CONECA. Heck, they might shoot him back the same responses that were given here for free on their forum. Personally I would recommend that the OP stop spending time looking for errors or the unusual, chuck this in the ol' change jar and start looking for quality. Better yet, define their collecting goals or area/s of interest, study, then start looking for pieces. 

[Rykel]

Thank you guys I really appreciate your help and all the information you've given me and I do understand it's just an error coin but still I'm very interested in finding out exactly what it is be a good learning experience. I'll never stop looking for other coin varieties always hoping to find good quality coins from Cherry pickers guide. It's a very fun hobby and I'm hooked never know what I'm going to find when I'm coin roll hunting and I weigh all my pennies 😅😅✌️

Thanks again guys I will let you know what the outcome is.

[Coinbuf]

On 12/4/2023 at 7:49 PM, Rykel said:

Awesome information I have so much to learn I had no idea about different types of presses used in different years. I really do want to know how this error was caused exactly and what it is. I do believe it is worth it to send out to be looked at by an expert. Would you be able to recommend where I should send it to?

If there is a large coin show near you that would be a good opportunity to show the coin to an expert or two.   Sulivan Numismatics deals in mint errors and does most of the larger coin shows.   I don't collect errors myself so that is the only reputable error dealer that I am familiar with, I also like @Fenntucky Mike idea to post it on the CONECA website for additional feedback.

[VKurtB]

On 12/5/2023 at 5:06 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

CONECA might take a look at it. I think you have to post some pictures on the forum first before they'll agree to examining the coin. 

https://conecaonline.org/examination-services/

Or you could take it to FUN in Orlando in January.  CONECA will have a table there in the club section.

[powermad5000]

Hello!
I don't think chucking this back into change is necessarily the right thing to do with it. I would look into it further. Even though it is not some big dollar coin, part of the fun in this hobby is research and analysis and making connections with other people who have knowledge we do not currently possess. I would hold on to it and try the CONECA route. Try to get a definitive answer. I'm late to the party due to some computer issues, but it did not resemble the typical long linear plating bubbles I have seen. One on here recently comes to mind that was nearly rim to rim and crossed the entire bust of Lincoln on the obverse. The plating bubbles usually do cross through the design elements. I would say it is also not a planchet defect as if the planchet had "bumps" the strike would flatten those out. The minting process would say these lines were in the die as metal was able to flow into those spaces during the strike. If it were die scrapes from the feeder finger scratching the die, this is maybe a later state of that after the finger interfered with the die many times to produce so many lines. I would think it is possible that the first strikes maybe only had one line or two and the condition progressively got worse.

[EagleRJO]

I think it's a good idea to post the coin to the CONECA forum for some more feedback, but if you are sure it is solid raised lines on the coin then it can't be "linear plating blisters" which are hollow by definition per the links provided above.  Your coin also does not have the appearance of linear plating blisters which vary in width, are not straight lines, and are not just limited to the fields like the attached example of that from Error-Ref.com.

That essentially just leaves dies scrapes or scratches from the feeder or some other source which would be solid raised lines on the coin that are straighter, more consistent in width, more regularly spaced, and are only in the fields of the coin like the attached example of that from Error-Ref.com, which is consistent with the raised lines on your coin.

Notice how the lines on the example cent are only in the fields and are broken up by design elements on the die, like at the "O" in One and the "T" in Cent.  This is consistent with something scraping across the surface of the working die and only affecting the exposed fields on that die, similar to the attached die for a shield cent where you can visualize the effect of something scraping across the surface and only affecting the raised fields on the die.

For your coin I don't think it is worth if to pay a fee to have either CONECA or a TPG examine the coin and identify the error.  I have seen similar coins with a similar feeder die scrape error sell for about $10 to $20 on eBay, so you would essentially loose any value the coin may have.  I would just put it in a labeled flip and keep it in a box with miscellaneous error coins you find.  Also, if you do post the coin on the CONECA forum let us know what feedback you receive.