Toning yes or no 1 1

[J P M]

On 12/2/2023 at 7:12 PM, edhalbrook said:

Is there only two W nickels?  

I think only the 2020 nickel is. D-Cam proof and reverse proof, so I guess that would be two different coins.

Edited December 3, 2023 by J P M

[JKK]

On 12/2/2023 at 4:12 PM, edhalbrook said:

I'm getting used to the toned nickels in my books. They look like so many others I have seen. I'll stock with what I got and try and add the odd ball ones to the collection. Thinking on maybe getting some variants to add to it. I don't really do variants at all though. Need to learn more there. Is there only two W nickels?  

I don't know. What I do know is that toning is often artificial, sometimes appealing and sometimes uglier than sickcoins' posts, and varies highly based on environmental factors. If the coins are in an older album, some form of toning is highly likely.

[Halbrook Family]

Picked this one up today.  I don't know if it's good or bad. 

[Halbrook Family]

Would this one be good for my dansco book in place of a brown circulated one? I don't know when a toned coin is good. 

[Lem E]

On 12/8/2023 at 7:17 PM, edhalbrook said:

Would this one be good for my dansco book in place of a brown circulated one? I don't know when a toned coin is good. 

A toned coin is good when you find it attractive. If you like this one better than the current one in your Dansco then go ahead and swap it out. It is your collection. Do whatever makes you happy. 

[Coinbuf]

On 12/8/2023 at 6:17 PM, edhalbrook said:

Would this one be good for my dansco book in place of a brown circulated one? I don't know when a toned coin is good. 

As Lem said it is your collection and you should do what makes you happy when you view the coins.   Having said that I truly think that knowledgeable collectors would uniformly use the term "beaten with an ugly stick" to describe the 18-S Lincoln.   That coin does not exude original toning in any sense of the word, the coin has been completely messed with or "bonked" as many describe the artificial toning that has been applied to that coin.   I can only speak for myself, but I would take a nice light to chocolate brown toned coin over that mess any day.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Coinbuf

[Halbrook Family]

On 12/8/2023 at 7:23 PM, Coinbuf said:

As Lem said it is your collection and you should do what makes you happy when you view the coins.   Having said that I truly think that knowledgeable collectors would uniformly use the term "beaten with an ugly stick" to describe the 18-S Lincoln.   That coin does not exude original toning in any sense of the word, the coin has been completely messed with or "bonked" as many describe the artificial toning that has been applied to that coin.   I can only speak for myself, but I would take a nice light to chocolate brown toned coin over that mess any day.

It looks kind of cool but yeah it's.... I don't know I don't get the toning thing much. It came in a bag of wheat pennies.  There seems to be lots of them out there. Weird but they are being sold by some of the same people. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by edhalbrook

[JKK]

On 12/8/2023 at 8:23 PM, edhalbrook said:

It looks kind of cool but yeah it's.... I don't know I don't get the toning thing much. It came in a bag of wheat pennies.  There seems to be lots of them out there. Weird but they are being sold by some of the same people. 

Probably artificial toning. One way to do this is a certain kind of heat treatment. Probably making good money bilking the rubes, who look and think "ooohhhh shinny" (most of them don't spell too well) and that "shinny is better, so pretty pretty rainbow colors are better still."

[EagleRJO]

On 12/8/2023 at 10:23 PM, Coinbuf said:

Having said that I truly think that knowledgeable collectors would uniformly use the term "beaten with an ugly stick" to describe the 18-S Lincoln.   That coin does not exude original toning in any sense of the word

It looks like AT (Artificial Toning) on that 1918-S Cent, as well as the two coins in hand, to me also as I don't see good color progression.

On 12/8/2023 at 11:23 PM, edhalbrook said:

It looks kind of cool

That's what counts even if it is AT of the coins in-hand which all seem to lack good color progression, but just so you are aware some collectors consider AT in a very bad light as something intended to fool less knowledgeable collectors..

And talking about coins in-hand. if you are going to use your bare hands to handle coins only touch them at the edges as your hand has oils at the surface which could negatively affect the coins.  Some collectors, including me, soak all their better raw coins in acetone before putting them in long-term storage holders to ensure there are no oily fingerprints on the coins.

Edited December 10, 2023 by EagleRJO

[Lem E]

On 12/8/2023 at 10:23 PM, edhalbrook said:

It looks kind of cool but yeah it's.... I don't know I don't get the toning thing much.

Before you make your final decision on toning, might I suggest a little 5 cent thread in the US forum. You seem to like nickels so what’s it going to hurt to take a peek? If you don’t find something that happens to catch your eye in there then maybe toning isn’t for you. 
By the way, I agree that the coins above are no bueno.

 

[Halbrook Family]

On 12/9/2023 at 12:20 AM, Lem E said:

Before you make your final decision on toning, might I suggest a little 5 cent thread in the US forum. You seem to like nickels so what’s it going to hurt to take a peek? If you don’t find something that happens to catch your eye in there then maybe toning isn’t for you. 
By the way, I agree that the coins above are no bueno.

 

Thanks. I'll just toss the penny in my oddity box. Do any of you actually go out looking for a toned coin? I was looking at auction prices at this site for coins. There is some on there that sell OK but I didn't see many that look that weird. I prefer coins that look more white or original. Better to be toned then cleaned. how to tell a faked toned from a natural toned? 

[Coinbuf]

On 12/8/2023 at 9:23 PM, edhalbrook said:

It looks kind of cool but yeah it's.... I don't know I don't get the toning thing much. It came in a bag of wheat pennies.  There seems to be lots of them out there. Weird but they are being sold by some of the same people. 

You are correct that there are many people out there attempting to create colorful coins to fool people and extort money for the pretty colors.   Sadly, this does work at times and there are people who fall victim to this area of coin doctoring.

On 12/9/2023 at 7:12 AM, edhalbrook said:

how to tell a faked toned from a natural toned? 

Toning is a very deep subject with many nuances, even the TPG's like NGC and PCGS are fooled when it comes to real vs artificial toning at times, I can guarantee you that there are toned coins in both holders that are not natural.   Books have been written on the subject of toning; it is a complex area.   And toning is different for the different types of metals, and in many cases it is different for uncirculated coins vs coins that have circulated in commerce.   It takes a lot of time studying and looking at multiple real and artificially toned coins to develop your eye to spot it.

One universal thing which was touched on by @EagleRJO is color progression, in nature colors seldom have hard lines.   Think about when you look at a rainbow, those colors blend from one to the other, not one color then bam the next color.   Now look at the coins in your palm, notice how the colors are not blending, they look like the colors were painted on like the old paint by numbers that you may have done as a child.   Then look at the photo in @Lem E post, notice how the colors on that liberty nickel softly blend from one to the next, no hard lines.   Also notice how the colors on the cents in your palm are flat and lifeless compared to the nickel where the colors are more vibrant and have a somewhat iridescent look, this is easier to see in hand but once you know what it looks like you can spot it easier in photos.   Real toning will move and react to light as you rotate the coin under a proper light source, where most artificial toning does not, it just lays there and has no movement or life to it.   Then again some forms of real toning, like toning that happens to coins in some of the US mint packaging, will have a very different look.   That look can simulate the surface of a dry lakebed, with a crackled look to it, totally natural from the mint cello but very different.

Toning is a very hard thing to master, I have been collecting for decades and I am still learning when it comes to toning each and every day.   That is one of the reasons I like to go the local monthly coin show, not to buy but simply to look and talk to dealers and collectors.   After you look at thousands of toned coins both raw and in TPG holders you will begin to develop your eye and see the things that distinguish real from artificial, even if we never fully master toning.

On 12/9/2023 at 7:12 AM, edhalbrook said:

Do any of you actually go out looking for a toned coin? 

I can only speak for myself, and the answer will depend on what coin I am looking for.   Personally, I much prefer a bright original red cent vs a toned one when looking for or at uncirculated coins, but for a circulated copper coin my preference is for a nice even brown color.   But in even with copper I have examples of toned coins that I find to be extremely attractive, just not something that I actively hunt for.   For silver coins I again prefer them to be blast white just as they looked when they were struck, but the older the coin the less I expect blast white.   As silver ages it will mellow and tone naturally, no coin can stay as struck unless stored in a vacuum.   And here again, I have many toned examples that I find very attractive just not what I necessarily hunt for.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Coinbuf

[powermad5000]

I don't seek out toned coins. Much like you, I prefer coins to be a nice, bright white (I collect pretty much all silver). I do have some coins toned and most definitely will prefer a toned coin even if it is literally black to a cleaned coin. I want straight graded coins, toned or not. I have very few coins which are cleaned that I am keeping only due to the coin series, limited mintage, and superb remaining details despite the cleaning. I have many Trade Dollars with details grades but have details that would equal MS 65 and despite the issues I am keeping them because that is what the coin used to look like (minus the surface issues). 

Every now and then, I come across a toned coin that despite me not being what you would call a fan of toning, that I will look at and say either, "Wow! That is really cool looking!" or "That coin really looks great toned like that.". There have been some Mercury Dimes, Morgans, Trade Dollars, Barbers that I have seen with some really neat coloring to them from the toning. If they are high enough of a grade, I would purchase them despite wanting the bright white I normally seek out.

As for detecting artificial toning, it can be very difficult and indeed even more difficult to detect from photos so for online purchases, you would need a definite return policy. I think @Coinbuf summed it up very well in his response here and I don't feel a need to repeat what he stated.

If I can get this pic out of my new computer (lots of issues with this one), I'll try to post one of my first Morgans I got starting out roughly 40 years ago as an example. I won't sell this coin and I like it just the way it is. Nearly all black. But it is straight graded, and I would rather have this over a cleaned one that looks white. To me, this is the way a coin with that level of wear should look like. If it was cleaned to look white, it would not look normal.

Edited December 9, 2023 by powermad5000

[VKurtB]

On 12/8/2023 at 7:17 PM, edhalbrook said:

Would this one be good for my dansco book in place of a brown circulated one? I don't know when a toned coin is good. 

No one does. Some THINK they do, but they don't.

[J P M]

When I buy a coin online, I have to rely on what is pictured. I buy a coin for its look, date and the best price. I think most of us do. Toning is not on my list. Sometimes you get lucky and get a good-looking toned coin without looking for it. I almost skipped over this coin I like blast white Morgans, but It was too nice a price and it looks awesome in hand. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by J P M

[EagleRJO]

On 12/8/2023 at 8:17 PM, edhalbrook said:

Would this one be good for my dansco book in place of a brown circulated one? I don't know when a toned coin is good. 

A toned coin is good for your Dansco book when you like it and you think it is good for that collection.  Toning varies considerably, and different toning appeals to or alternatively is not liked by various collectors.

For example I collect Morgans and the 1889 (P) Morgan JPM posted does not appeal to me, even though I have various toned Morgans in my collection, but obviously JPM likes it very much and probably other collectors like it too.  I would follow the old school mantras of "collect what you like" and "know the coin before you buy the coin".

Edited December 10, 2023 by EagleRJO