Question on a 1910 p Lincoln wheat cent 1 1

[Kerrykz]

Haven't been able to come up with just what this is  no known ddos for this yr. Doesn't appear to be md or look like a hit (to me at least). Gotten varying opinions so far

[Moxie15]

That does not seem to show any die doubling in my opinion. It looks to be a bit of die wear and machine doubling. 

[J P M]

It looks like it could be a partial filled die on the tip of the.. S ............At any rate it is a good looking cent

Edited November 12, 2023 by J P M

[Kerrykz]

I hadn't even considered a partially filled die. Looks closer to that than md

[Henri Charriere]

Very lovely piece!

[Coinbuf]

A partial filled die is a good possibility, at any rate it for sure is not a doubled die coin.   It is a very nice looking coin for your collection.

[dprince1138]

The S and E reminds me of a few repunches that I have seen, but since there does not seem to be any die histories, then it is probably localized usage wear.

 

 

[powermad5000]

To the OP, please ignore the post above mine as somewhere around 1837 most of the images and lettering on coins were added to the hubs except for the dates and mint marks. There definitely was no hand punching or repunching of mottos in 1910. Also the 1836 whatever coin it is has nothing to do with your 1910 Lincoln Wheat Cent. 

That said, a partial filled die is a possibility, but I am going to lean towards die deterioration seeing how close the L in LIBERTY is nearly touching the rim and the lettering of the motto is closer to rim than usual, especially the W in WE. If I am not mistaken on LWC's the lettering shifting outwards toward the rim was a sign of worn and overused dies in this series. If I am not correct on that, I would appreciate the correction but I believe I learned that right here in this forum.

[Kerrykz]

Totally agree on the die deterioration on some of the letters   was mostly that end on the s that had me lost...doesn't look step like and is so clearly defined    but again with ddo there should prob more   but then again the same with mdd.   Almost makes me wonder if something got in the die to make it such a clean line 

[dprince1138]

DDs can be very localized, especially for older coins.  For example,  shield borders or lines on the reverse for a capped bust half.  (see first image)

These die varieties are most likely more associated with older coins, but the point is simply that lines can be too long or too short in some instances.  This can apply to lines, numbers, letters, serifs, etc, particularly in a repunch situation.

"Several lines of stripes 1 through 5 extend into crossbars with line 1 of stripe 5 penetrating to crossbar 5." (see second image)

There are literally hundreds of these sort of particular die exceptions.

There are numerous die variety sources that list a coin and the associated die varieties.  There may be a library that lists possible die attributes and the coins that have them, but I have not seen any comprehensive ones.  If I am not able to find one, then perhaps I can make that as a project.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by dprince1138

[ldhair]

All members. Don't ignore @dprince1138 Report him to the mods. That's the only way to get rid of his off topic post. 

[Kerrykz]

Um... What?  Hies talking about exactly what's posted?  Saying that it could be ddo. Just extremely localized is possible.read up. It was said that ddo would be expected on multiple spots not just on the one letter.

[ldhair]

On 11/13/2023 at 5:52 PM, Kerrykz said:

Um... What?  Hies talking about exactly what's posted?  Saying that it could be ddo. Just extremely localized is possible.read up. It was said that ddo would be expected on multiple spots not just on the one letter.

I'm sorry. I should have said, All members. Don't ignore @dprince1138 Report him to the mods. That's the only way to get rid of his off topic post and false information. 

[dprince1138]

Multiple dd locations are not uncommon.  Here is the 1st one that I came across when doing a search.  Multiple DDs on different structures.  Another task that I am thinking about doing is improving the search engine on this source site.  (I am a retired database engineer, specializing in data mining).

The O-108 is a doubled die error reverse. There is doubling on the upper side of the left wing tip to to the left of all three claws and the left talon. The doubling is strongest  on the three lower pairs of leaves, berries and berry stems of the olive branch. Light doubling is seen on the second and third talons and back of the two lower arrowheads. This was caused when the hub (which consists of the eagle/arrows/olive branch image) was a little off during the second impression into the die.

 

[Sandon]

On 11/13/2023 at 9:03 PM, dprince1138 said:

This was caused when the hub (which consists of the eagle/arrows/olive branch image) was a little off during the second impression into the die.

 

@dprince1138--You are referring to a device punch, not a "hub", which I recall wasn't used to make half dollar dies prior to the 1836 reeded edge type and would have included all elements of the reverse die, including the letters and numbers. (The coin whose reverse you posted is clearly of the 1807-36 lettered edge type; the reference to "O-108" is meaningless without identifying the year of the coin, as the Overton reference starts over at O-101 for each year.)  The correct term for any doubling that would result from movement of the device punch between blows, I recall, would be repunching, not a doubled die!  Can you refer me to any numismatic reference that supports your terminology? 

  To the OP--Although some (generally less significant) doubled dies do not show doubling on all letters or elements, what @dprince1138 has written is irrelevant to your coin, which was, in fact struck from "hubbed" dies. The extremely magnified photos you provided do not appear to show die doubling, which would be crisper and at or near the same level as the primary image. (Have you compared it to any listings of less well-known doubled dies for 1910 Lincoln cents on doubleddie.com and varietyvista.com?) Even if it were a doubled die, it would be so minor as not to warrant much collector interest or premium. (You are welcome, of course, to collect any coin you find interesting, and it is at least a nice AU or brown uncirculated 1910 Lincoln cent.)

   Take note that "[w]ith few exceptions, NGC will not attribute die varieties [such as doubled dies] that require greater than 5x magnification to be clearly recognizable." What is a Variety? | NGC (ngccoin.com). Similarly, the recently published Volume 2, Sixth Edition of the Cherrypickers Guide to Rare Die Varieties states as a "helpful hint" at p. 27, "If you can't discern a variety with a 7x loupe, it probably isn't significant enough to earn the attention of other collectors."

   

   

   

[powermad5000]

I have reported both of these posts for utterly confusing the OP.

To the OP, please refer to @Sandon's post as one with correct information.

[Kerrykz]

Thanks much.  Lots of useful info.... Didn't really expect it to be something particularly valuable.  Just couldn't find anything on it... Having something just interesting and weird finds are pretty awesome even if it's nothing particularly valuable. (to me).  I couldn't find any ddos at all listed on variety Vista. But haven't looked at doubledie before.  Thanks much again !