This is what can happen when you ignore your coins. 0

[ldhair]

I have many of these with this look. I put them away after going to PCI 20 or 30 years ago. My fault for not watching them. They were part of a much larger group of Seated Half Dimes and Seated Dimes. Most of the group still look really nice. A little research told me that the problem coins all came from the same famous dealer. I'm pretty sure an improper dip is to blame. These slabs are known for toning coins but not in this way. 

They will be going in for conservation but have little hope that there is not damage under the black. I plan to get much nicer images before they go in for conservation. The service may not even wish to work on them. Have you seem this look before?  This are poor images of one example. 

 Images won't load. I'll try again in a while. 

[ldhair]

[Mike Meenderink]

Unfortunate turn ... they may not respond well to conservation at this point. The discoloration is permanent IMO. It may be reduced but it will never be eradicated. It is a nice coin still ...nature is a cruel mistress....goodluck!

[VKurtB]

On 11/6/2023 at 8:21 AM, ldhair said:

Holy molies, Larry. Please keep us up to date on these, anything anyone shares about what this is.

[Coinbuf]

Is the tone purple or black?   Is there any luster movement under the toning?   If it is black and there is no luster band movement under the toning I doubt that NCS will be able to do anything, once terminal tone is bonded to the surface you would have to strip away a deep layer of the coin surface to remove it.

[J P M]

That's like a carbon mark. That stinks

[ldhair]

On 11/6/2023 at 12:42 PM, Coinbuf said:

Is the tone purple or black?   Is there any luster movement under the toning?   If it is black and there is no luster band movement under the toning I doubt that NCS will be able to do anything, once terminal tone is bonded to the surface you would have to strip away a deep layer of the coin surface to remove it.

That's my thought. Some of the coins are black with no luster. Others have a bit of purple and some luster. The NCS folks are really good. I'll trust what ever they decide. I don't think any of them can be helped very much. Maybe I'll get lucky on a few. I'm also starting to think this may have something to do with PVC before being sent to PCI.   

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

I am very sorry this happened to you.  I hope that it is able to be conserved. 

[Coinbuf]

PCI holders have been known to produce some very wild and dramatic toning at times, and at times results like yours.   Best of luck, I'm sure that NCS will do what they can just not sure what that will be.

[leeg]

Sorry to see this.  Hope things work out for the better.

[Henri Charriere]

My feeling is if a collector elects to have a coin encapsulated, ostensibly to protect it from harm--or further harm, he should not be required to look in on it from time to time. I don't know whether PCI provided a guarantee or disclaimer at POS, but seeing as how the damage is done and either, or both, the holder or adverse storage conditions may be to blame, this is one instance where I would forward the item intact to enable conservation to examine the evidence as a unit.

Many developments have since been made in better understanding the interaction between plastics and metals and the answer to this damage may only be found and explained after an examination of both the coin and its sarcophagus. I would urge you to send the affected coins encased in slabs intact for conservation and investigation if for no other reason than to broaden the hobby's body of knowledge regarding encapsulations and the materials used in their production.

[powermad5000]

I am really not sure if you can send the original slabs to NCS by signing the consent form to remove the coins from the holders. I am not sure if NCS does this or if NGC would have to remove the coins from those PCI slabs and then send them over to NCS. If you can, come back to this and let me know how that part works.

While I have sent around 20 coins or so for conservation to NCS, I do know there are limitations as to what they can achieve in conservation measures. Since you state some of the coins are all black, that doesn't explain the one in the photo above where the discoloration is only at the center of the coin. Do you think it is spreading outwards toward the rim in the slab? Would it be of interest to retain that one slab with the center discoloration and put it on a shelf for about a year and see if there is any change happening to it over time? Just throwing that idea out there. I am not sure if it would help in determining if the slab is causing it or if something happened to it before it was put in the slab, but I like to perform experiments of such in an attempt to come to a solid answer.

I never dug the PCI slabs and stayed away from them because to me most of them were overgraded and I was not trusting of the coins in them to grade the same if I cracked them out.

I will definitely be looking for the update to this. Thanks for posting this issue.

[ldhair]

I'm thinking the holders I received the coins in were PVC but I just don't remember. It's been too many years.

[Henri Charriere]

 

 

On 11/8/2023 at 4:08 PM, powermad5000 said:

....Since you state some of the coins are all black, that doesn't explain the one in the photo above where the discoloration is only at the center of the coin. Do you think it is spreading outwards toward the rim in the slab? Would it be of interest to retain that one slab with the center discoloration and put it on a shelf for about a year and see if there is any change happening to it over time? 

Me thinks it would be better to send the whole kit n kaboodle in simultaneously.  It's possible they were all submitted at different times but I believe it important that NCS view the entire progression at one time.  My guess is this is not the first time they have seen damage like this and I wouldn't be surprised if the answer comes back quickly: "Yes, we've seem this before and either CAN do something to remove it, or CANNOT." If the damage cannot be addressed or abated or arrested, there would be little point in re-holdering any coin in that condition.  But I get ahead of myself, let's hope for the best and also hope the OP posts his results. 

I do not believe gold is susceptible to something like this but if it happened to me, I would be devastated [and Kurt would smugly observe, Now you know why I refer to the TPGS who holdered your coins on the West coast as the four-letter concern].