Agree or Disagree -- and Why. 1 1

[Henri Charriere]

Statement:  If you want to know how much your coin is worth, you must get it professionally graded.

[J P M]

I do not  need it graded to find out . To me it is priceless.  It is only worth what someone will pay me for it. The worth can be estimated or suggested but in the end it is only worth what it is worth to someone else. I buy graded coins so others will know the worth. Is that answer worthy.

[FlyingAl]

Disagree.

However, I think the statement could be like this: "In order to maximize the potential value of your coin, you should get it professionally graded."

[VKurtB]

On 11/2/2023 at 7:24 PM, FlyingAl said:

Disagree.

However, I think the statement could be like this: "In order to maximize the potential value of your coin, you should get it professionally graded."

This is better, but even this is not absolute. Many, if not most, coins should NEVER see the inside of a grading slab.

[CIII]

I would diasagree with that statement.  You can generally get a good idea of a coin's value without having it graded.  Having said that, I would probably recommend having it preserved and encapsulated, depending on the perceived value.  I personally have some favorites that I would never put plastic around.

[VKurtB]

On 11/2/2023 at 8:01 PM, CIII said:

I would diasagree with that statement.  You can generally get a good idea of a coin's value without having it graded.  Having said that, I would probably recommend having it preserved and encapsulated, depending on the perceived value.  I personally have some favorites that I would never put plastic around.

Well over 98% for me.

[CIII]

Do you have to glove up every time you want to examine them?

[CIII]

I have several very nice proof coins that you would have to be so delicate with, I would never look at them if they didn't have plastic around them.

[RWB]

On 11/2/2023 at 8:24 PM, FlyingAl said:

Disagree.

However, I think the statement could be like this: "In order to maximize the potential value of your coin, you should get it professionally graded."

I agree with Flying Al, however I'd change his conditional statement thus:

"In order to maximize the potential value of your coin, you should get it professionally graded, even if the grade is bologna; also add a silly paper label with a misleading title."

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/2/2023 at 9:38 PM, RWB said:

I agree with Flying Al, however I'd change his conditional statement thus:

"In order to maximize the potential value of your coin, you should get it professionally graded, even if the grade is bologna; also add a silly paper label with a misleading title."

The wording of my statement was intentional.  Not intestinal. 🤣  I did not want to imply certification was preferred or mandatory. But one needs a starting point. For example, if you have an Indian Head Cent, dated 1877, the only question that ought to follow is what grade is it? From there you can get a ball-park figure as to value. Irrespective of personal point of view, to you it may be "priceless," but if you leave the coin to your heirs, there is no starting point in any meaningful conversation without a value and no more indispensable minimal starting point at establishing that than a grade, or, if it gets to that, an appraisal.

I appreciate the advice you gave in one column suggesting collectors would do themselves and their heirs a great favor by selling off their possessions rather than leave them to clueless heirs who would be unlikely to derive any semblance of a FMV for their prized possessions. I have two dozen coins to concern myself with. And with spot gold on the rise, I come out ahead if I do absolutely nothing.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Henri Charriere
Correct misspelling

[VKurtB]

On 11/2/2023 at 8:09 PM, CIII said:

Do you have to glove up every time you want to examine them?

I NEVER "glove up". Neither do professional graders. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[VKurtB]

On 11/2/2023 at 8:10 PM, CIII said:

I have several very nice proof coins that you would have to be so delicate with, I would never look at them if they didn't have plastic around them.

Physical and/or occupational therapy might help with fumble-fingerness.

[World Colonial]

On 11/2/2023 at 9:59 PM, Henri Charriere said:

For example, if you have an Indian Head Cent, dated 1877, the only question that ought to follow is what grade is it? From there you can get a ball-park figure as to value.

Actually, no.  The first thing someone needs to know with the 1877 IHC is if it is counterfeit.

Edited November 3, 2023 by World Colonial

[VKurtB]

On 11/2/2023 at 9:07 PM, World Colonial said:

Actually, no.  The first thing someone needs to know with the 1877 IHC is if it is counterfeit.

Authentication before all else.

[Hoghead515]

On 11/2/2023 at 8:33 PM, VKurtB said:

This is better, but even this is not absolute. Many, if not most, coins should NEVER see the inside of a grading slab.

I agree with this. Ive seen many coins graded that I would have thrown in my change jug to be put back into circulation. The ones who had them graded had to have taken major losses after all the fees. Its scary, all the common pocket change, hiding in slabs. 

[VKurtB]

On 11/2/2023 at 9:32 PM, Hoghead515 said:

I agree with this. Ive seen many coins graded that I would have thrown in my change jug to be put back into circulation. The ones who had them graded had to have taken major losses after all the fees. Its scary, all the common pocket change, hiding in slabs. 

I just got assigned (about an hour ago) the task of going through "several coffee cans of coins" that belonged to my father's brother. He was born in 1917 and passed in 2018. 101 years of age. I don't EXPECT to find much of exceptional value in there (unlike our newbies), but the denominations run from cents to silver dollars, with considerable in between, so we'll see. I understand mintages and how rare rare coins are, so my expectations are low. They're called rare for a reason. I'll let you know. If I find one or two slab-worthy coins in there, it'll be a pleasant surprise. Maybe a 1928 Peace dollar.

Edited November 3, 2023 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/2/2023 at 8:33 PM, VKurtB said:

This is better, but even this is not absolute. Many, if not most, coins should NEVER see the inside of a grading slab.

So you want to go back to the 1960's and 1970's...before TPGs...before the Internet....where if you dealt with a reputable dealer you were OK...but if you dealt with a fraud or a guy who simply didn't know coins, you got screwed ?

[World Colonial]

On 11/3/2023 at 2:52 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

So you want to go back to the 1960's and 1970's...before TPGs...before the Internet....where if you dealt with a reputable dealer you were OK...but if you dealt with a fraud or a guy who simply didn't know coins, you got screwed ?

Most coins aren't worth enough money to be graded.

You're still thinking of the coins you buy, which only a very low to tiny minority do.

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2023 at 1:52 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

So you want to go back to the 1960's and 1970's...before TPGs...before the Internet....where if you dealt with a reputable dealer you were OK...but if you dealt with a fraud or a guy who simply didn't know coins, you got screwed ?

What I want is actually irrelevant to the analysis. That’s largely the way I conduct business - very retro if not paleo. The error you keep making is thinking being a St. Gaudens collector is “normal”. It’s not. It’s highly unusual to exceptional. The key is KNOWLEDGE. Collectors used to be required to have it, and not be dilettantes that outsource their knowledge requirements to a TPGS. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by VKurtB

[CIII]

Interesting.  My bubble is not burst.

[CIII]

On 11/2/2023 at 9:06 PM, VKurtB said:

Physical and/or occupational therapy might help with fumble-fingerness.

I’m 59 and my motor skills are fine.  Thanks for the snarky advice.  

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/2/2023 at 10:06 PM, VKurtB said:

Physical and/or occupational therapy might help with fumble-fingerness.

Not a matter of manual dexterity. I believe the collector is satisfied to view his proofs in their original mint-issued holders.

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/3/2023 at 7:45 AM, VKurtB said:

....The error you keep making is thinking being a St. Gaudens collector is “normal”. It’s not. It’s highly unusual to exceptional....

There are an awful lot of those double-eagle collectors. Have you taken a look at the set registries?  Now that guy who's got a stone coin from Yap -- that right there is highly unusual and exceptional! Talk about having it submitted and granted a platinum bean?  A class in itself.

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2023 at 1:34 PM, Henri Charriere said:

There are an awful lot of those double-eagle collectors. Have you taken a look at the set registries?  Now that guy who's got a stone coin from Yap -- that right there is highly unusual and exceptional! Talk about having it submitted and granted a platinum bean?  A class in itself.

Registries, schmegistries.

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/3/2023 at 4:51 PM, VKurtB said:

Registries, schmegistries.

What's with the dismissiveness?  On mine, the current finest possible set rating is 67.313. That has never been attained. I come in at 65.906, with the # 1 ranked set. The guy breathing down my neck -- who, incidentally, has not made an addition in 10 years, comes in at 63.788.  If he finds something interesting, the "Rooster Roster" gets taken down by the four-letter folks. I'll be all washed up, a has-been, and my army of ignorers will have a hearty chuckle at my expense. 🤣  All that time and effort and expense for bupkis.  

Edited November 12, 2023 by Henri Charriere
Gratuitous die-polishing.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/3/2023 at 7:43 AM, World Colonial said:

Most coins aren't worth enough money to be graded.

You're still thinking of the coins you buy, which only a very low to tiny minority do.

Yes, true...but not even the ones I buy....let's say any coin over $50, $100 tops....which most every collector of any series would have to probably buy a few of these over time IF they were a serious collector who wanted a complete set OR a few nice "trophy" coins.

Forget my bullion (DEs, MSDs) targets. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/3/2023 at 7:45 AM, VKurtB said:

What I want is actually irrelevant to the analysis. That’s largely the way I conduct business - very retro if not paleo. The error you keep making is thinking being a St. Gaudens collector is “normal”. It’s not. It’s highly unusual to exceptional. The key is KNOWLEDGE. Collectors used to be required to have it, and not be dilettantes that outsource their knowledge requirements to a TPGS. 

Ok, cleared up as I posted above to WC. 

But again...forget my coins....the ones that take up MOST of the dollar-volume...the more expensive coins (and I mean $50 and up)....the ones featured at most coin shows....the ones attracting the most interest in online auctions....for these coins having a TPG grade is probably best OVER TIME.

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2023 at 7:02 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Ok, cleared up as I posted above to WC. 

But again...forget my coins....the ones that take up MOST of the dollar-volume...the more expensive coins (and I mean $50 and up)....the ones featured at most coin shows....the ones attracting the most interest in online auctions....for these coins having a TPG grade is probably best OVER TIME.

Not my dividing line. I would never consider getting ANYTHING graded that doesn't get above well into three digits, with the exception of things for competitive exhibiting aesthetic purposes. Actually, the decision is based on a price delta. If I don't get the cost of grading back PLUS the price delta between grades, that puppy ain't a-gonna git graded, period. Remember, I don't think in terms of registries.

Edited November 4, 2023 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2023 at 5:24 PM, Henri Charriere said:

What's with the dismissiveness?  On mine, the top-rated set is 67.313. I come in at 65.906. The guy breathing down my neck -- who, incidentally, has not made a contribution in 10 years, comes in at 63.788.  If he finds something interesting, the Rooster Roster gets taken down by the four-letter folks. I'll be all washed up, a has-been, and all my army of ignorers will have a hearty chuckle at my expense. All that time and effort and expense for bupkis.  

Your lead of (65.906 minus 63.768 equals 2.138) is far safer than you imagine. Obsessing on a lead that considerable strikes me as borderline something or other. Forget the 67.313. That would require one guy having all the top pops. That ain't happenin'.

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/3/2023 at 8:13 PM, VKurtB said:

Your lead of (65.906 minus 63.768 equals 2.138) is far safer than you imagine. Obsessing on a lead that considerable strikes me as borderline something or other. Forget the 67.313. That would require one guy having all the top pops. That ain't happenin'.

Few would know this, but you heard it here first:  That number, 67.313, the "current finest possible set rating," was 67.219 for some time.  But neither number makes sense unless the two gold roosters certified and graded MS-68 were added to the Set Registry -- and they never were. Instead, they flew the coop and were cross-graded, successfully, at NGC -- and, again, not added to any Set Registry. The Great Zadok took especial delight in proclaiming I would never see them in my lifetime.  True, others have disagreed with him, but no one has contradicted him or proven him wrong.

All this may seem like an obsession of sorts to you, but it's as second nature to me as your pursuits are to you.