stupid question, but please don't beat me up for it ............just trying to learn the very basics of coin grading/values 0

[fishbone]

Hi

Fishbone here from the CGC side. I know everything about comics, magazines and sportscards, but I found some coins at home that my Grandfather left for me and I haven't really paid any attention to them until now. I will post them here later today, but my first question is about "cleaning":

With comics, there is pressing and cleaning, but my guess is that cleaning old coins that are a bit dirty is a "no-no".... Is that correct?

Looks like I have some old US silver dollars, US dimes .... but most importantly I have several gold coins from Britain and Australia from the early 1900's that I think may be worth a couple grand each (maybe..??? I will post them soon....) 

 

Thanks

Fish

Edited October 30, 2023 by fishbone

[Greenstang]

Correct, never clean coins.  
The exception is you can soak them in pure acetone for about 24 hrs to remove   
some contaminates. Never use a brush or cloth to clean.   
Show us some photos ( both sides and cropped ) of some of your coins.

[Coinbuf]

Welcome to the coin side of the house, not a stupid question and one that I wish a few people had asked before watching you tube videos.   I will second the advice to not clean any coins other than an acetone bath if there is any green ooze.   Post em up!

Edited October 30, 2023 by Coinbuf

[dprince1138]

Here the inks for descriptions of grading and US coin values.  Also, there are die varities.

Sheldon coin grading scale - Wikipedia

NGC Coin Price Guide and Values | NGC

United States Categories | VarietyPlus® | NGC

Of course, there are many nuances to coin grading and inspection.  I will not go into them here, but there may be more information in other threads as well as simply googling.  Good luck!

[Sandon]

    Unfortunately, even the "very basics of coin grading and valuation" have become somewhat complex due to the adoption of the numerical grading "system" in the 1980s and its evolution, but as it appears you don't intend to become a serious collector but just want to get some idea of the value of your grandfather's coins, here are some tips.

   For U.S. coins, a current (2024) or recent edition of A Guide Book of United States Coins, commonly known as the "Redbook" is indispensable to learn the basics of U.S. series and how to identify valuable dates, mints and varieties. It is available from its publisher at whitman.com, as well as from other booksellers and numismatic book and supply dealers. As I assume you don't want to buy other numismatic books and subscriptions such as a print grading guide and a current price guide, I recommend that you refer to PCGS Photograde (https://www.pcgs.com/photograde) for a basic photographic guide to grading U.S. coins and to the NGC U.S. Coin Price Guide (NGC Coin Price Guide and Values | NGC) for a retail price guide, although this guide, as well as the similar (but generally higher) one at pcgs.com are generally for certified coins.

   NGC also has a World Coin Price Guide (NGC Coin Price Guide and Values | NGC), in which the coin descriptions also generally include the bullion content of gold and silver coins. Unless your early 1900s British and Australian gold coins (sovereigns?) are rare dates or in uncirculated grades, their value is likely largely determined by the amount of gold they contain. 

   "Cleaning" refers to any abrasive or chemical process that alters the surface of a coin and devalues it in the eyes of collectors, who seek coins with original surfaces. It includes wiping a coin, even with a cloth, which can leave undesirable hairline scratches. Don't do it.

[JKK]

On 10/30/2023 at 12:48 PM, fishbone said:

Hi

Fishbone here from the CGC side. I know everything about comics, magazines and sportscards, but I found some coins at home that my Grandfather left for me and I haven't really paid any attention to them until now. I will post them here later today, but my first question is about "cleaning":

With comics, there is pressing and cleaning, but my guess is that cleaning old coins that are a bit dirty is a "no-no".... Is that correct?

Looks like I have some old US silver dollars, US dimes .... but most importantly I have several gold coins from Britain and Australia from the early 1900's that I think may be worth a couple grand each (maybe..??? I will post them soon....) 

 

Thanks

Fish

You are rightly advised not to clean them, so your instincts are good there.

The gold depends. A lot of gold from that era does not get a big premium. Good sharp photos of both sides will enable us to give you some idea. Same for the dollars and dimes.

[EagleRJO]

On 10/30/2023 at 5:41 PM, Sandon said:

For U.S. coins, a current (2024) or recent edition of A Guide Book of United States Coins, commonly known as the "Redbook" is indispensable to learn the basics of U.S. series and how to identify valuable dates, mints and varieties.

You can typically find copies of this reference in decent local libraries (you know, those big buildings with lots of books ) that are not that old and is good enough for basic info and relative pricing for someone who doesn't intend on becoming a coin collector.

[fishbone]

Here are my coins:

 

 

[fishbone]

.

[fishbone]

.

[fishbone]

.

[fishbone]

.

[fishbone]

.

[fishbone]

.

[fishbone]

.

[fishbone]

.

[fishbone]

Sooooooo….. what do all think ? Anything here ?

 

thanks for all the responses so far

 

Fish

[Lem E]

Looks like some cool stuff if everything turns out legit. 

On 10/30/2023 at 7:17 PM, fishbone said:

.

@Henri Charriere might get a kick out of this one…or be sad it was turned into jewelry. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 10/30/2023 at 8:26 PM, Lem E said:

Looks like some cool stuff if everything turns out legit. 

@Henri Charriere might get a kick out of this one…or be sad it was turned into jewelry. 

The continual repurposing of coins with jewelry -- wristwatches, rings, etc. -- is unstoppable. I have a well-worn 1902 IHC either glued or welded onto a tie clip. Sad, but what are you going to do?  Untold millions of gold roosters were melted down. This one survived. Kind of. Melt is close to $400.

[Coinbuf]

Some very cool items indeed.    I do not collect foreign coins or paper so I will let others advise you on those.   The only thing I can say is that the rooster gold coin would likely be considered damaged from the bezel and as such the value is around melt value.

Both the Morgan dollar and Mercury dime are very common dates in well circulated condition, about Very Fine for the dime and about Fine for the dollar.   In those grades both are worth the value of the silver content, about $2-$3 for the dime and $25-$30 on the dollar.   That is not to say that there are not collectors for them, just not high value items.   I myself recently put together an album of Merc dimes that look just like yours.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Coinbuf

[EagleRJO]

On 10/30/2023 at 8:26 PM, Lem E said:

Looks like some cool stuff if everything turns out legit. 

Agreed, some interesting pieces, and it may be worth while to take the gold colored coins to a local coin shop with an XRF tester to verify the coins are gold.  You could also measure specific gravity (density relative to water) and compare that to published values, but that is really an advanced area of coin collecting.

The shop could also quote you a price if selling them is desired.  Just keep in mind they will naturally quote you wholesale prices as a business, while most guides have retail prices or what someone would pay for the coins if purchasing them from a dealer or individual.

It is really sad that 1911 Rooster was made into jewelry, which essentially turned it into bullion if real.  I could clearly picture @Henri Charriere cringing looking at that.  

Edited October 31, 2023 by EagleRJO

[fishbone]

On 10/30/2023 at 10:06 PM, Henri Charriere said:

The continual repurposing of coins with jewelry -- wristwatches, rings, etc. -- is unstoppable. I have a well-worn 1902 IHC either glued or welded onto a tie clip. Sad, but what are you going to do?  Untold millions of gold roosters were melted down. This one survived. Kind of. Melt is close to $400.

Not sure who did it … was my Grandfather’s passed down to me 

can’t the clasp just be removed ? Guess not eh ?

 

[EagleRJO]

On 10/30/2023 at 11:01 PM, fishbone said:

... can’t the clasp just be removed

No, not to restore it as sadly it would still be damaged, and it was likely acquired like that.

Btw, I don't think you're asking stupid questions, and shouldn't get any replies slamming you with how you asked.  And this is the "newbie" sub-forum.

It's usually people who totally misrepresent things with complete bravado, don't really want to learn and get belligerent when they don't like just honest opinions or advice members are offering where replies can get a little sarcastic.

Edited November 2, 2023 by EagleRJO

[powermad5000]

Hello and welcome!

Nice to see you handling the coins by their edges and also wanted to say you took pretty good pics for a guy who doesn't take coin pics all the time. 

I am of the persuasion to never clean coins at all except for running under some hot water and gently placing them on a microfiber towel. Flip so both sides have had the towel absorb some water, and then let air dry. If it doesn't come off, it is not going to come off. Never use a brush or wheel, eraser, sandpaper, rag, toothpaste, or any other concoction or tool and never rub a coin. In all, don't clean coins, I don't recommend to clean coins, and don't clean coins.

I was saddened to see the Rooster with a mount on it. I know you didn't put it there. A jeweler can possibly remove the mount but the damage is still done and it would be graded as Mount Removed.

I agree with the others your silver is common and in well circulated condition. The Morgan about $25. The Mercury dime about $1.50. The Canada 1902 H 10 cents might be around $5 (currently in the price guide at $9 in F condition).

I'll let the others who are more knowledgeable on the gold and paper guide those.

Oh, and by the way, there are no stupid questions. And I for one am not here to beat anybody up for asking anything.

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 10/30/2023 at 8:19 PM, fishbone said:

 

The notes look to be in pretty good condition, worth around $4-$6 each if in uncirculated, maybe a little more.

Pick # 94c

The commemorative set with the coin and banknote look like they are going for $15-$20 on ebay.

EDIT:

Quote

can’t the clasp just be removed ? Guess not eh ?

It could but the coin would still show signs of a clasp having once been attached. Having the clasp removed wouldn't increase the value imo. 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Fenntucky Mike

[Coinbuf]

On 10/30/2023 at 8:01 PM, fishbone said:

Not sure who did it … was my Grandfather’s passed down to me 

can’t the clasp just be removed ? Guess not eh ?

 

It can be removed very easily, but will leave a mark either from the mount or from the tooling to remove the mount on the rim which will be easily noticed by anyone that looks closely.

[fishbone]

On 10/30/2023 at 5:41 PM, Sandon said:

    Unfortunately, even the "very basics of coin grading and valuation" have become somewhat complex due to the adoption of the numerical grading "system" in the 1980s and its evolution, but as it appears you don't intend to become a serious collector but just want to get some idea of the value of your grandfather's coins, here are some tips.

   For U.S. coins, a current (2024) or recent edition of A Guide Book of United States Coins, commonly known as the "Redbook" is indispensable to learn the basics of U.S. series and how to identify valuable dates, mints and varieties. It is available from its publisher at whitman.com, as well as from other booksellers and numismatic book and supply dealers. As I assume you don't want to buy other numismatic books and subscriptions such as a print grading guide and a current price guide, I recommend that you refer to PCGS Photograde (https://www.pcgs.com/photograde) for a basic photographic guide to grading U.S. coins and to the NGC U.S. Coin Price Guide (NGC Coin Price Guide and Values | NGC) for a retail price guide, although this guide, as well as the similar (but generally higher) one at pcgs.com are generally for certified coins.

   NGC also has a World Coin Price Guide (NGC Coin Price Guide and Values | NGC), in which the coin descriptions also generally include the bullion content of gold and silver coins. Unless your early 1900s British and Australian gold coins (sovereigns?) are rare dates or in uncirculated grades, their value is likely largely determined by the amount of gold they contain. 

   "Cleaning" refers to any abrasive or chemical process that alters the surface of a coin and devalues it in the eyes of collectors, who seek coins with original surfaces. It includes wiping a coin, even with a cloth, which can leave undesirable hairline scratches. Don't do it.

Thank you 🙏🏻

[Sandon]

    The gold coins are essentially bullion value pieces with one possible exception. (I assume that they are genuine, which they appear to be, but claim no expertise in authenticating foreign gold coins.)

    The three sovereigns (British gold coins with a face value of one pound) each contain 0.2355 troy ounce of gold, which is currently at a historically high price level near $2,000 per troy ounce due to the turmoil in the Middle East. At today's price--it changes daily--they are each worth $467.86 in gold. The 1912 appears to be About Uncirculated but shows no premium over bullion value in the World Coin Price Guide below uncirculated.  The 1959 appears to be uncirculated and lists $500 in MS 63 (Choice Uncirculated) grade. The 1930-SA (Pretoria, South Africa mint), which is the possible exception, appears to be Choice About Uncirculated and has no list price in the guide below nominally uncirculated MS 60 but lists $1,400 in that grade.

   The French 1911 20 franc "Rooster" contains 0.1867 troy ounce of gold. It appears to have been polished or "cleaned" as well as mounted. Its value would be limited to bullion value, about $371 at today's gold price.

   The remaining coin that hasn't been specifically commented on, a well-worn (About Good to Good) 1902-H Canadian dime, struck at the Heaton (Birmingham, England) mint, has no current list value below Fine ($9) and is likely only worth its current silver value of around $1.50.

[JKK]

"fishbone"? Maritimes? Or someplace like Port Alberni?

At first it didn't register with me, then I noticed. If you're going to move about the Canadian coin world at all--the one that any dealers near you will operate in, of course--it's important to know a couple of things. (I'm from Kansas and live in Oregon, but I'm that rare USian who can name all your provincial and territorial capitals, and likes poutine and Arctic char.) I've collected your coinage for decades and enjoy it very much. I especially like pre-Confederation stuff.

One is that while the RCNA standards follow a descriptive and numbering pattern similar to the ANA's, they have important differences. To some degree Canadian grading is easier because the obverse is similar across the board, and they don't change the monarch's picture too frequently. I believe QE II had three total portraits. Anyway, once you learn what's important about a given portrait with regard to grading, that will apply to all issues bearing that portrait. Another important difference is that the RCNA standards are less muddy. In those, the details either are there or they are not, and there's no wiggle room for eye appeal in most grade levels. (Maybe at very high levels, but I am only experienced in grading circulated Canadian coins.)

Your best reference on this is the Charlton book. It's the Canadian equivalent to our Red Book. It has excellent blowup shots of varieties, pricing information that at least has use showing relative values, and RCNA grading guidelines. I don't buy it every year but it has helped me a lot. I think nowadays it comes in two volumes.

And they're right; there is no way to remove the clasp that would make it like it never happened. I can think of nothing even a professional goldsmith could do that would conceal the former location of a clasp. If you spent a fair bit of money on one, you might get one that would fool a novice, but fooling an experienced collector would be almost as hard as fooling a reputable grading service. Not that you would seek to fool anyone; rather, it just means there's no way to turn that clock back far enough, sorry to say.

[cobymordet]

Gold is good! - nice coins.  Fishbone, if you haven't already, consider checking with family members to see if your gramps ever talked about how he acquired the gold coins.  It could shed additional info without much time/money/effort.  Yer 1930 sovereign is definitely the shiner.  if you have time and inclination, throw a few more pics out. - We want more more more!