NGCX? Where are the coins? 1 1

[zadok]

On 10/1/2023 at 11:19 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

They must have done some marketing or research work that said that there were lots of potential buyers of classic/modern coins but they were confused by the grading scale.  Honestly, I think the hurdles to learning about coins are far less than those about buying a house, learning about real estate, investing in the financial markets, etc.

Hey, maybe NGC saw a niche opportunity and went for it.  Dunno......

...niche is an apt word...this concept arrived after change of ownership, always happens, the bean counters have to show some reason for their existence, which equates to "change"...no bean counter ever subscribes to "if it aint broken dont fix it"...just look at the well-established restaurant chains were taken over by non-food consortiums, immediately changes to menu n service to show efficiency, productivity, cost savings net result, decreased service worse food n menu destruction...in this instance the counters reviewed the numismatic world n found it inefficient n determined that other collectibles in their new barn worked well on the bo derek scale of 10 n convinced management to push for uniformity within their stables...i would bet ngcx certs that the originators n deciders were non-collectors, but a niche is a niche whether successful or otherwise....

[GoldFinger1969]

On 9/29/2023 at 6:24 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

It was originally, but now has expanded to Morgan and Peace dollars. I've paid zero attention to this but maybe it's taking off. 

ALL Morgans/Peace or just more common coins ?

The economics must not work for anything costing a few $$$....no serious collector will want the NGCX label and the newbies will probably realize they're overpaying. 

[VKurtB]

On 10/1/2023 at 6:09 PM, zadok said:

the bean counters have to show some reason for their existence,

Nailed it. But THEY nearly NEVER do. 

[VKurtB]

On 10/1/2023 at 6:09 PM, zadok said:

...niche is an apt word...this concept arrived after change of ownership, always happens, the bean counters have to show some reason for their existence, which equates to "change"...no bean counter ever subscribes to "if it aint broken dont fix it"...just look at the well-established restaurant chains were taken over by non-food consortiums, immediately changes to menu n service to show efficiency, productivity, cost savings net result, decreased service worse food n menu destruction...in this instance the counters reviewed the numismatic world n found it inefficient n determined that other collectibles in their new barn worked well on the bo derek scale of 10 n convinced management to push for uniformity within their stables...i would bet ngcx certs that the originators n deciders were non-collectors, but a niche is a niche whether successful or otherwise....

The best part of that story is Mary Cathleen Collins herself. 

[World Colonial]

On 10/1/2023 at 11:19 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

They must have done some marketing or research work that said that there were lots of potential buyers of classic/modern coins but they were confused by the grading scale.  Honestly, I think the hurdles to learning about coins are far less than those about buying a house, learning about real estate, investing in the financial markets, etc.

Hey, maybe NGC saw a niche opportunity and went for it.  Dunno......

Someone saw what they wanted to see, even when it isn't there.

Learning the minutia in the differences between one-point increments in the Sheldon scale takes some effort.  It takes no effort for the non-collector novice to comprehend the Sheldon scale, especially when they overwhelmingly only concern themself with two numbers.

That's a "69" and a "70".

[gmarguli]

On 10/1/2023 at 8:19 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

They must have done some marketing or research work that said that there were lots of potential buyers of classic/modern coins but they were confused by the grading scale.

Facebook Shareholders: They must have done some marketing or research work that said that there were lots of potential users of the Metaverse.

Coke Shareholders: They must have done some marketing or research work that said that there were lots of potential Coke drinkers if we just introduced a New Coke formula. 

The idea that there are all these people out there that really wanted to collect coins, but were scared off due to the confusing 1-70 scale with 30 grade points, but now that there is a 1-10 scale with 29 grade points is laughable. Worse than that. Mind-blowingly stupid. No one collects something because it has an easy to understand grading scale. If that were true, lets do a 2 point scale: New / Used. The masses will flock to coins like never before!!

Edited October 1, 2023 by gmarguli
Typo

[World Colonial]

On 10/1/2023 at 4:28 PM, gmarguli said:

Facebook Shareholders: They must have done some marketing or research work that said that there were lots of potential users of the Metaverse.

This gets my vote as the stupidest idea in business, ever.

There is truth to the idea that supply creates its own demand, but not with a pretend world where people are going to spend huge amounts for it.  Those who have paid stupid amounts for "real estate" in it are just like those buying an NFT.

It's another aspect of the asset mania where people have collectively lost their minds.

[RWB]

On 9/28/2023 at 6:06 PM, gmarguli said:

Good news for you, they just announced expanding it into Morgan & Peace dollars. 

Is there an equivalence table?

[zadok]

On 10/1/2023 at 1:32 PM, VKurtB said:

The best part of that story is Mary Cathleen Collins herself. 

…her too 😉,10+ in my book…im big favorite of casandra peterson too….

[gmarguli]

On 10/1/2023 at 2:12 PM, RWB said:

Is there an equivalence table?

Here you go: NGCX to Sheldon Comparison

[Henri Charriere]

On 10/1/2023 at 4:33 PM, World Colonial said:

This gets my vote as the stupidest idea in business, ever....

It's another aspect of the asset mania where people have collectively lost their minds.

I have an uncanny ability to recognize the clear loud ring of the bell after The Truth has been spoken. Since this necessarily requires the ponderous passage of time, it may be unlikely those who heard it and dismissed it out of hand will be around to be told, I told you so!  My net worth may be zero, but my instincts are intact. I believe every word uttered from the mouth of member W.C., unaccompanied by fanfare, is the unvarnished truth. I believe I know the membership well enough and better than most but enough to say what you've said -- and the principles you continue to espouse, though seemingly unappreciated now, shall come to fruition and I, and a few others will smile and mutter, He was right and way before his time!  

[RWB]

On 10/1/2023 at 7:16 PM, gmarguli said:

Here you go: NGCX to Sheldon Comparison

Thank you. So that's really 100 points vs 70 points, omitting the +  -  *  !!!!!!!! and LQQK stuff. The definitions are all guesses, with almost no empirical content.

[J P M]

On 10/1/2023 at 9:05 PM, RWB said:

Thank you. So that's really 100 points vs 70 points, omitting the +  -  *  !!!!!!!! and LQQK stuff. The definitions are all guesses, with almost no empirical content.

I get it.. the 10=70 and if I take off the 9. and change it to a 6 then I have all my MS 60 - MS 69 .well that was easy............. BS all day.

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 10/1/2023 at 1:20 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

ALL Morgans/Peace or just more common coins ?

The economics must not work for anything costing a few $$$....no serious collector will want the NGCX label and the newbies will probably realize they're overpaying. 

The article states that NGC is "accepting vintage Morgan and Peace dollars", I didn't see any additional specifics, or restrictions on types. I'm assuming NGCX is only available for bulk submissions so more than likely any Morgan or Peace dollars submitted will be common dates, anything else wouldn't make sense most likely, especially if the coins are selling for relatively low prices. I'm a little surprised that they haven't tried sticking a high dollar coin in a slab with NGCX label yet for marketing. Ooh, look at me, look at me! 

EDIT:

I just looked up NGCX on ebay and there was a few hundred listings. I was a little surprised to see how many world NCLT coins were in NGCX slabs, as well as how many different label and core variations there are already. And Palau ok'd a Chris Farley coin. 

From thechivery.com webpage, 

"Earlier this year NGC came to us with the opportunity to release the "Power of X". That's right, Chive Rare Coins was chosen to release one of the very first coins on a grading scale of 10 and to make this moment more special we've bestowed that honor onto the 2023 Chris Farley Legal Tender!

Master-crafted from solid silver, these coins are more than just a collector’s item: they are legal tender, which means they cannot be knocked off or counterfeited without legal repercussions. Secure your investment today, and watch the value of your precious metal coin grow for years to come. No matter how crazy the world gets, with a Chris Farley coin in your pocket you’ll stay lucky and laughing through it all. Gold and silver coin holders achieve entrance to theCHIVE HQ for life and the Gold, Silver, and Black Dinner in November 2023. "

Edited October 2, 2023 by Fenntucky Mike
More Info

[RWB]

On 10/2/2023 at 6:19 AM, J P M said:

I get it.. the 10=70 and if I take off the 9. and change it to a 6 then I have all my MS 60 - MS 69 .well that was easy............. BS all day.

Yep...AND... they have all those juicy, profit laden numbers in between with which to squeeze collectors into thinking they MUST HAVE those new numbers "'cause they're more (fill in the blank)_____________."

[RWB]

On 10/2/2023 at 6:27 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Master-crafted from

....I have some of those from Ikea !

[J P M]

On 10/2/2023 at 6:27 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

they are legal tender, which means they cannot be knocked off or counterfeited without legal repercussions.

And we all know that this always works. ...................................I know Mike did not say this it is just a funny statement in his quote...

Edited October 2, 2023 by J P M

[Mike Meenderink]

So I've read the thread. My only input is I think you will see the NGCX holders come out just as others have stated with an NGCX value with an additional adjectival numerical grade in small letters much like an NGC ancients holder with a straight graded coin in it. The people at NGC aren't stupid they will take input from the community and adjust as needed.

[goosedilly]

Good Day! Newbie to the boards. I was doing a little research on NGCX . I do have a few coins and I get a lot of enjoyment adding them to my registry for my records and tracking. 

 I do have several NGCX coins that I bought on eBay. The only reason I buy them is that they are much cheaper than legacy grades. The 10 is the only grade that I can assume an equivalency . As soon as we get to 9.9 the price equivalent drops steeply below what I would expect. 

 The there is the fact that NCGX isn't allowed in the registry. A newbie like me wants to be able to see all my coins in my registry. I got PCGS coins in there. The fact that it isn't allowed in the registry at this date tells me that the grade scale is not being accepted by the collectors in general. 

 Does anyone know if we will see NGCX allowed in the registries? 

Thank you. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 10/1/2023 at 5:37 PM, zadok said:

…her too 😉,10+ in my book…im big favorite of casandra peterson too….

Met her during a bomb scare at CHILLER convention in Parsippany, NJ a few years ago ! 

[zadok]

On 12/16/2023 at 6:36 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Met her during a bomb scare at CHILLER convention in Parsippany, NJ a few years ago ! 

...lucky u...i used to go grocery shopping same time at foodland in colo springs when she did...had to shop at 3:00 am she said some weird coin collector with a beard from harrisburg pa kept following her around during the day calling her miss70....

[Sandon]

On 12/16/2023 at 4:02 PM, goosedilly said:

 Does anyone know if we will see NGCX allowed in the registries? 

   Only NGC could answer this question. The NGCX FAQ page has the following response to it: "NGCX coins are not currently eligible for the NGC Registry. But don't worry – NGC will develop a platform for collectors of NGCX-certified coins to organize and display their collections."  NGCX - A New 10-Point Grading Scale for Coins | NGC (ngccoin.com). I think that it has said this since NGCX was announced, and I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for NGC to develop this platform, which may be separate from the NGC Registry and only for NGCX graded coins.

   It doesn't appear that NGCX has been widely accepted, and it likely never will be, which is probably why coins in NGCX holders are selling for less than those in holders using the 1 to 70 scale grades approved by the American Numismatic Association and used by all other grading services and most dealers and collectors.  If you want to include your certified coins on the NGC Registry, don't buy them in NGCX holders.

[powermad5000]

I immediately had a bad taste in my mouth when this whole NGCX thing came out. Are you kidding me that it is easier for someone to interpret a ten point scale that contains decimal points (which in its most technical is a 100 point scale), or the 1-70 Sheldon scale which in reality is not a full 70 points as there is no issued grade of say XF 42 or VG 37, so it really has many less points in it.

To me this whole thing is just more of the millennial caca that I have seen come out. We can't just pay for something with cash or credit card. Nooooooo, that was not good enough. We need to also have PayPal (the only one I do use for online security), Venmo, Zelle, Apple Pay, Google Pay, Coinbase, Stripe, Fiverr, Bitpay, and I am sure there are others. Whyyyyy?????

I am sorry if this reply possibly offends some people but I saw no reason to mess with the grading that was previously used. And the old dinosaur that I am will NOT participate in this new garbage. I will not buy even one slab. Once I am dead, then you may all proceed to carry on with destroying everything the hobby was built upon.

[Henri Charriere]

I am certain my expulsion, to the delight of my legions of detractors and ignorers will be assured with the revelation -- yes, I plead Guilty with an Explanation -- that I am not only in complete accord with the statements made hereinabove by the two learned gentlemen NGC palms off as mere Newbies, but embrace them entirely, hook, line and sinker.  Why take that risk?  Because what they strongly suggest makes perfect sense.  It's been said you are never too old to learn.  At 72, I am over the hill and in my final lap.  If I am sadly mistaken and much work remains to be done, NGC [and the Great Zadok, compiler of pallets] will let me know in their own inimitable ways. If resisting NGCX is an actionable offense, I am prepared to receive my punishment for this monumental transgression. Nevertheless, I remain open to divergent viewpoints. Should anyone advance a compelling argument against these trains of thought, I will take back every misguided thought I have entertained.

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 12/16/2023 at 4:02 PM, goosedilly said:

 Does anyone know if we will see NGCX allowed in the registries? 

Only if they sell a boat load of them, so no.

If NGC had developed a platform that was for NGCX coins or allowed their inclusion in the current registries this would have had a better chance of getting off the ground. I'm a little surprised that they didn't launch both at the same time, guess NGC never really thought this would take off either. Vault Box seems to be doing well though and those are only NGCX coins if I remember correctly.

[zadok]

On 12/17/2023 at 4:56 AM, Henri Charriere said:

I am certain my expulsion, to the delight of my legions of detractors and ignorers will be assured with the revelation -- yes, I plead Guilty with an Explanation -- that I am not only in complete accord with the statements made hereinabove by the two learned gentlemen NGC palms off as mere Newbies, but embrace them entirely, hook, line and sinker.  Why take that risk?  Because what they strongly suggest makes perfect sense.  It's been said you are never too old to learn.  At 72, I am over the hill and in my final lap.  If I am sadly mistaken and much work remains to be done, NGC [and the Great Zadok, compiler of pallets] will let me know in their own inimitable ways. If resisting NGCX is an actionable offense, I am prepared to receive my punishment for this monumental transgression. Nevertheless, I remain open to divergent viewpoints. Should anyone advance a compelling argument against these trains of thought, I will take back every misguided thought I have entertained.

...all of that kamalese to just say u dont like NGCX?....

[VKurtB]

On 12/17/2023 at 12:49 PM, zadok said:

...all of that kamalese to just say u dont like NGCX?....

Me neither, but if I ever found an NGCX holdered coin that I wanted (a lonnnnnnng shot, but possible) I wouldn’t hesitate to buy it, because I intuitively understand the equivalent grades. I might want to get the slab autographed by a clueless MBA from a private equity firm, though. 

[VietMedic6869]

I bought a 2023P ASE graded MS10  NCGX.  I was also very curious to see if this new gimmick would stand the test of time.  I had ANACS numerically graded coins (both sides) with images of the coins and the grading scale (I think it was 1-5?) back in the 1980s.  It seemed to be better than an overall grade now used.  Maybe it will be a novelty in the future?

Happy Holidays!

Bob

Edited December 18, 2023 by VietMedic6869

[VKurtB]

On 12/18/2023 at 8:36 AM, VietMedic6869 said:

I bought a 2023P ASE graded MS10  NCGX.  I was also very curious to see if this new gimmick would stand the test of time.  I had ANACS numerically graded coins (both sides) with images of the coins and the grading scale (I think it was 1-5?) back in the 1980s.  It seemed to be better than an overall grade now used.  Maybe it will be a novelty in the future?

Happy Holidays!

Bob

With any luck at all, NGCX will be discontinued within a year, and the MBA's who came up with it will be unemployed.

[zadok]

On 12/18/2023 at 5:10 PM, VKurtB said:

With any luck at all, NGCX will be discontinued within a year, and the MBA's who came up with it will be unemployed.

...if so, the question will be..."will NGCX coins bring a premium in years to come?"....